Collar or harness?

MisssAshby

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#1
I have two that are polite and walk nicely when on a leash and two that need some work. Charlie (rescue) is a MAJOR puller.

There is no question that the harness encourages his pulling. So, I decided to try a collar and he gags and chokes the whole time he is pulling. I have noticed with the harness he pulls non-stop (even if I'm at a stop) - with the collar he will back up and give some room once he starts choking.

I'm a little confused on what I should be using for his training. I know that the harness promotes his pulling but I'm concerned that the pulling is going to damage his windpipe.

Advice?

Thanks! :)
 

corgipower

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#2
If they're gagging and choking on a collar, I would use a harness. If you use one that has a ring in the front and attach the leash there, it doesn't promote pulling.

Also, they should learn attention and loose leash walking regardless of the equipment.
 
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#3
People told me not to use a harness on mine when training them... but I feel my dogs health is more important than the chance that they will learn to pull.

With small dogs a collapsed trachea is a real concern, Bella already has one.

It is possible to teach a dog to walk nicely on a leash with a harness, Elle and Bella both walk well on leashes and only wear harnesses.

(we wont talk about Armani... he is just a brat)
 

MisssAshby

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#5
If they're gagging and choking on a collar, I would use a harness. If you use one that has a ring in the front and attach the leash there, it doesn't promote pulling.

Also, they should learn attention and loose leash walking regardless of the equipment.
Where can I find a harness like that?

When he is on the harness he has no interest in anything I say. I can't even get his attention because he is so focused on pulling to sniff and see what he can find. What do I need to do to get him to focus on me instead of being so focused on pulling?
 

corgipower

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#6
Where can I find a harness like that?

When he is on the harness he has no interest in anything I say. I can't even get his attention because he is so focused on pulling to sniff and see what he can find. What do I need to do to get him to focus on me instead of being so focused on pulling?
The halti harness - halti harness - Google Product Search

To get him to focus on you, start in a distraction free environment. Have a bunch of good treats that are small and easy to swallow. Get him to look at you - calling his name might work or moving a little or you might need to show him the treats initially, but if so, you want to fade that fast. As soon as he looks at you - even for a moment - give him the treat. Repeat this a few times. Switch hands for where the treat comes from so he doesn't target the same hand.

After a few times doing this, he should start looking at you more often. Keep treats handy so you can reward him when he does. Gradually add duration - have him look at you for longer before he gets rewarded ~ a couple seconds more at a time. Then start doing the same thing in a few other distraction free places and add distractions - low level distractions at first and then building up to more.

I like to use a release word after attention training so he knows that he can go off and play and explore.

The next thing is to teach him to pay attention while moving. Start with getting his attention. Take one step and reward. Gradually add more steps with random rewards and then slowly add in distractions. Again, use a release word when you're done.

Another thing that helps with attention is to keep yourself interesting. Changes of direction and speed, lots of praise and rewards with a variety of food and toys. Dogs usually enjoy quick movement - it gets them into play drive.
 

MisssAshby

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#7
Thanks for all the info CP. :)

I did some research before posting this thread and found a few reviews/comments about the dog developing the same problems again once the owner stopped using the Halti. Is this an issue? Or is this only an issue if the dog isn't trained correctly?
 

corgipower

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#8
Dogs can become smart to equipment - they perform when wearing equipment they're trained in and they don't perform if they're not wearing it.

But that's not an issue of the equipment. It's an issue of the training. When you train the dog it should be regardless of equipment. The dog should be able to perform in a harness, in a collar, naked...

Also, if the dog does end up where he doesn't pull in the harness but goes back to pulling in a collar, I don't see any reason to not continue using the harness. Unless you're planning on competing with him.
 

Doberluv

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#9
I agree with the use of a no-pull type harness. The bottom line is that pulling must not work for your dog. Pulling and walking forward can not go together. EVER. Before he gets to the end of the leash, if he's going out ahead of you, make a turn. Reinforce heavily with a yummy, but tiny treat each time he's paying attention and comes along side you. Keep your leash about the same length so he gets to know how far he can go before something's going to happen, like a turn or a stop. Do frequent sits upon stopping. Keep him engaged with you. You can use a toy too to keep him interested in working with you. Like it was said, low distractions for a while when you practice loose leash walking and then introduce a mild distractor...add them in gradually as he is able to concentrate with small distractions. Lots of turns, stops, you can go back the same path you just took when he's about to hit the end of the leash. Vary what you do so he doesn't know what's coming next. Just make sure you never ever take another step when he makes tension in the leash. In other words, he has to learn that a taut leash doesn't work to walk, but a loose leash does. And something that most people don't do that is very important is to reinforce FREQUENTLY, like every other step at first while he IS keeping the leash loose and IS staying along side you. If you reinforce her while he's next to you with her shoulder instead of when he's way out ahead of you, that is better. He'll be better able to pay attention and see where you're going next.

The more reinforcing he gets when she's in a good position, the quicker he'll learn. The reinforcers are yummy treats and the ability to continue walking. Those things that he likes happen for him under certain circumstances. At first he'll be guessing what the circumstances are. He won't know why he's getting them until he's had loads of repitition. So it's important to be very consistent. If you slack off even one step here and one there and let him pull, that pulling behavior will get stronger.

I use a word when I'm going to give permission to the dog to sniff or pee and wander away from me a little bit. I say, "go sniff." But of course, at first, when the dog is learning, he doesn't know what that means, so I loosen up the leash more, take the dog to a likely bush or spot and when he sticks his nose down on the ground or pulls a little on the leash, I give the cue, "go sniff." Later, once the dog has tied the cue to the behavior, you can use the cue before the behavior....to tell the dog that now it's okay to do your thing and you don't have to walk nicely for a minute or so. Then when it's time to resume walking nicely, I use, "let's go." You can use whatever cues you want, just make them consistent. Don't let your dog pull you over when he decides he wants to go sniff or you'll be forever stopping and starting over and over a million times while you walk. You choose some times along the way for him to go sniff.

When you're practicing loose leash walking in a distraction free environment and even later when you're practicing with some distractions, switch things up. One time use a harness, another the collar. After some practice, your dog probably won't be pulling so much and won't hurt his throat. You can teach him to walk nicely, regardless of what equipment he has. If you have an area which is fenced, you can practice with nothing on him too. The more variables you throw in, the more he'll learn to generalize the behavior.
 
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