did I neuter too early?

MafiaPrincess

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#41
14 inches is the ideal height for a cocker bitch. 14.5 and it's a DQ.. Cider is 15.75.. Can't prove bad breeding wouldn't have made her taller anyhow.. but it's an awfully lot taller. She was spayed at 6 months.
 

fillyone

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#42
I'll take the article written in 2007 over the one in 2004 any day, new studies are done all the time and outdated material can be harmful.

I had a neuter contract with Dante's breeder that he wouldn't be neutered until 2. I did have it done at 14 months because I was concerned about a retained testicle.
 

ToscasMom

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#43
The shelters are so empty. I think we just have to work harder to convince every Tom Dick and Harry who is not an above and beyond pet owner like many on this board to not neuter their pets. That ought to fix the empty shelter problem.
 

Laurelin

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#44
I don't see what's so bad about keeping a dog intact if you're going to take care of it and not let it get with another dog.

Now, I'm all for neutering and spaying, but why do people act like intact males are going to be so much trouble. They're really not. Beau doesn't mark, he doesn't wander, he's by far the most non aggressive dog I've owned. He's three and still intact with no problems. He hasn't shown in about a year.

Of my four dogs, three are fixed as they're just pet dogs. I think all pet dogs should be fixed. Now, Nikki wasn't fixed until she was... 6 years old? Something like that. I would've done so earlier, but I was a child at the time. Still, she was never allowed out when she was in season. (A bitch in heat is a pain in the butt though). We also had an intact male and an intact female at the same time. Nik's first heat we had just gotten Trey and he was intact. No problems. Rose was spayed at 2 years and Trey was neutered at about 18 months. We've never fixed a dog under a year.

I also don't buy the medical benefits. I've researched both ways and there are benefits and risks to both getting a dog fixed and leaving one intact. Certain cancer risks go up with neutering and others go down. It's primarily for convenience. I don't want to have to deal with a female in heat, so we got Rose spayed. That doesn't make it wrong, but that's what it's for.

Another thing to point out is that in other countries where the amount of unwanted dogs is a lot lower than here that they rarely ever spay or neuter their pets. It has to do with the American attitude towards dogs as a commodity and not a responsibility. I'm not saying don't get your dogs fixed and the overpopulation problem will go away- obviously that's stupid. But I'm simply pointing out something.

People tend to assume if you DON'T fix your dogs you are automatically going to have puppies and be irresponsible. That's not true. You can have intact dogs and be completely responsible. I've actually been called abusive for not neutering Beau which is just plain stupid imo.

It boils down to a choice. Research and choose what is best for you and your situation, just make sure you know the pros and cons. There are pros and cons to both ways. Neither is a 'right way'. If you can't keep a dog intact for two years without impregnating a female, then by all means neuter him! If you can, well then look at the other aspects.

And about being anal about pets nowadays... Growing up our mutt was intact, fed Pedigree and survived without getting any other dogs pregnant etc. I wonder how he made it, lol.
 

Red_ACD_for_me

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#45
I don't see what's so bad about keeping a dog intact if you're going to take care of it and not let it get with another dog.

Now, I'm all for neutering and spaying, but why do people act like intact males are going to be so much trouble. They're really not. Beau doesn't mark, he doesn't wander, he's by far the most non aggressive dog I've owned. He's three and still intact with no problems. He hasn't shown in about a year.

Of my four dogs, three are fixed as they're just pet dogs. I think all pet dogs should be fixed. Now, Nikki wasn't fixed until she was... 6 years old? Something like that. I would've done so earlier, but I was a child at the time. Still, she was never allowed out when she was in season. (A bitch in heat is a pain in the butt though). We also had an intact male and an intact female at the same time. Nik's first heat we had just gotten Trey and he was intact. No problems. Rose was spayed at 2 years and Trey was neutered at about 18 months. We've never fixed a dog under a year.

I also don't buy the medical benefits. I've researched both ways and there are benefits and risks to both getting a dog fixed and leaving one intact. Certain cancer risks go up with neutering and others go down. It's primarily for convenience. I don't want to have to deal with a female in heat, so we got Rose spayed. That doesn't make it wrong, but that's what it's for.

Another thing to point out is that in other countries where the amount of unwanted dogs is a lot lower than here that they rarely ever spay or neuter their pets. It has to do with the American attitude towards dogs as a commodity and not a responsibility. I'm not saying don't get your dogs fixed and the overpopulation problem will go away- obviously that's stupid. But I'm simply pointing out something.

People tend to assume if you DON'T fix your dogs you are automatically going to have puppies and be irresponsible. That's not true. You can have intact dogs and be completely responsible. I've actually been called abusive for not neutering Beau which is just plain stupid imo.

It boils down to a choice. Research and choose what is best for you and your situation, just make sure you know the pros and cons. There are pros and cons to both ways. Neither is a 'right way'. If you can't keep a dog intact for two years without impregnating a female, then by all means neuter him! If you can, well then look at the other aspects.

And about being anal about pets nowadays... Growing up our mutt was intact, fed Pedigree and survived without getting any other dogs pregnant etc. I wonder how he made it, lol.
Awesome post Laurelin :) !! I totally agree with you and your reasoning! I also grew up with intact males my whole life who ate dog chow, stayed out in the yard loose with no fence, picked out of peoples trash once in awhile and lived a very long happy life :lol-sign: !
 

ToscasMom

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#46
I don't see what's so bad about keeping a dog intact if you're going to take care of it and not let it get with another dog.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you and several others who read this board can do this. It's the other millions of people who would shout OOOPs that worry me.

I am not convinced based on the information here that we are looking at anything other than anectodal information and a few opposing studies. I am just not so sure it's such a great idea to turn the world loose with unneutered dogs based on that.
 

Laurelin

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#47
Oh i know. :) It just flusters me when people act like you are an idiot for not neutering your dog. This does happen quite often.

I still think training is more to do with intact dog behavior than whether the dog is intact or not. Of our five male dogs I've had the only neutered one was Trey. The rest had no behavioral problems. (Actually Trey is the most problematic dog i've had, but that has nothing to do with his neutering) None marked or did anything that you hear about intact males doing. Granted Harry never made it to adulthood.

I also see a lot more benefits healthwise from spaying a bitch rather than neutering a male dog. Both adult female dogs i've had have been spayed, though i'd have preferred Nik was spayed earlier.

Most research is very pro spay/neuter because it's the easiest thing for the average person, but they are doing more research on the adverse effects too. It's all an interesting read.

The point is, I don't think people should be harping on you for neutering Elwood at 6 months. That seems pretty normal for me. If he were mine, I'd have probably waited until he was about two years old though.
 
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#48
personally i think six months is fine for most dogs and most owners. i wouldn't worry about it.
6 months is a great age to get a pet dog done. The average person (perhaps not people on this forum - I am talking about average Joes) should NOT wait until a dog is 18-24 months before getting it fixed. What is the point? if the dog is not going to be shown or worked or whatever, it should be fixed ASAP.
For giant breeds, it can cause problems (early spay/neuter.)

I will NEVER have another dane spayed or neutered before 18 months of age.

Aside from personal experience and the experienced words of wisdoms from many of my dane mentors, here are reasons why....

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/neutr.html

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/11/11/1434

http://www.petresource.com/Articles of Interest/new_views_on_neutering.htm


And then, one I've posted before that is EXCELLENT food for thought on the whole subject of the spaying and neutering prevents cancer arguement...

http://www.geocities.com/rottndobie/SpayNeuterCancers.pdf

It's a lot of reading, but it's a subject I have researched thoroughly and I am comfortable with my decisions. In a breed where bone cancer is rampant, if I can cut down the statistics even on a small bit, I'm going to.

Not only that, but I gastropexy all of my danes. Doing so too early can cause the pexy to break down and compromise it's effectiveness.
 

Red_ACD_for_me

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#49
For giant breeds, it can cause problems (early spay/neuter.)

I will NEVER have another dane spayed or neutered before 18 months of age.

Aside from personal experience and the experienced words of wisdoms from many of my dane mentors, here are reasons why....

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/neutr.html

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/11/11/1434

http://www.petresource.com/Articles of Interest/new_views_on_neutering.htm


And then, one I've posted before that is EXCELLENT food for thought on the whole subject of the spaying and neutering prevents cancer arguement...

http://www.geocities.com/rottndobie/SpayNeuterCancers.pdf

It's a lot of reading, but it's a subject I have researched thoroughly and I am comfortable with my decisions. In a breed where bone cancer is rampant, if I can cut down the statistics even on a small bit, I'm going to.

Not only that, but I gastropexy all of my danes. Doing so too early can cause the pexy to break down and compromise it's effectiveness.
Shadow, what are you doing about Corvus? Is he already neutered or are you waiting till he is grown to his full potential?
 
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#50
Shadow, what are you doing about Corvus? Is he already neutered or are you waiting till he is grown to his full potential?
Depending on his growth we will likely wait until 12 months and make a decision then. I have started to have doubts that he has any dane in him at all, though sometimes I swear he does. Sometimes I swear he doesn't. All we can do is wait and see.
 
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#51
It has caused issues in my breed when done before 2 years of age give or take. Also changes the whole outlook for males they looks lik bitches.

Females I would not do until just under a year.
 

juliefurry

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#52
It has caused issues in my breed when done before 2 years of age give or take. Also changes the whole outlook for males they looks lik bitches.

Females I would not do until just under a year.
Well that's what I was told that the male goldens will not get the blocky heads or fill out as much. They will be more skinny and leggy and have more of a female appearance to them. Which I don't mind it one bit but I just wondered why my vet never brought up that fact or anything like that. I called today and they say "well we suggest neutering when both the testicles are present around 6-7 months. If you wait until they are 1 than they will start marking in the house and doing other bad things lots of the time." Which I'm wondering if the receptionist even knows what she is talking about really she didn't really seem to understand what I was asking and I couldn't talk to my vet either.
 
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#53
From my prior vet's perspective, they want you to neuter early because it's easier on them (the vet). Smaller dogs, less fat, easier to manuever.

None of my males have ever marked indoors, even with foster dogs coming in and out constantly.

As for "other bad things" well, that boils down to training, not whacking off body parts.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against spaying and neutering, I just have something against it being done too early.
 

MafiaPrincess

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#54
It just flusters me when people act like you are an idiot for not neutering your dog. This does happen quite often.
You sure you haven't met my extended family? We had a get together I was forced to attend a few weeks ago, I took Smudge. They freaked at like 19 weeks he was intact.. Riiiiiiight.

Then they freaked harder I have no plans as of now to fix him.. I want to show him. Last time I checked you need balls to do that.. Freaked that I should have his 6 month appointment for neuter at the latest right this moment.
 

Laurelin

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#55
You sure you haven't met my extended family? We had a get together I was forced to attend a few weeks ago, I took Smudge. They freaked at like 19 weeks he was intact.. Riiiiiiight.

Then they freaked harder I have no plans as of now to fix him.. I want to show him. Last time I checked you need balls to do that.. Freaked that I should have his 6 month appointment for neuter at the latest right this moment.
Then they don't need to meet my dog- he's 3 and still intact lol. Unfortunately we've got the opposite problem in our family. We're the only ones with fixed dogs and they jsut don't care. grumblegrumble....

Anyways, Julie, from my experience (which isn't too much- I'm by no means an expert) but based on the male dogs we've had I've not seen much of a difference behaviorally that I can attest to not neutering. Like I said, Trey's special but that's nothing to do with the fact he's fixed. The other males have all been fine with no marking whatsoever. Beau marked a couple times as a puppy but we have no problems now. Maybe they are more prone to marking? I don't know. I've never had one that did.
 

Zoom

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#56
I don't see much of an issue with a 6 month neuter; my issue is with the 6-8 week neuters. I'm fully convinced that my friend's dog is having all the health issues that he's having because he was neutered at 7 weeks old.

As for myself, I will probably wait a little longer to neuter my dogs from now on, just because I do want as much growth out of them as possible, both for looks and sound structure.
 

ToscasMom

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#57
I don't see much of an issue with a 6 month neuter; my issue is with the 6-8 week neuters. I'm fully convinced that my friend's dog is having all the health issues that he's having because he was neutered at 7 weeks old.
They do that with dogs too? I know they do it with feral cats. We have this mobile program where they pick them up and a vet at my clinic oversees cornell students and they give them rabies shots and spay/neuter. I guess that is ok considering it does control the population and rabies potential, but I have seen them try it a lot with pet cats in the past few years. With cats, I usually do it at five months.
 
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#58
The shelters are so empty. I think we just have to work harder to convince every Tom Dick and Harry who is not an above and beyond pet owner like many on this board to not neuter their pets. That ought to fix the empty shelter problem.
This is a common concept, but it's really not logical. (It would be logical if the 'unwanted dogs' were puppies and kittens straight from the litter, and that does happen in certain areas of the country, mostly rural.)
In most of the US, lack of spay/neuter is not responsible for high shelter numbers/euthanasias. In most areas, 70-80% of dogs turned in to shelters have already been spayed/neutered. Retention is the problem, not overpopulation. (Granted, there are some areas where large numbers of puppies 'unwanted dogs' are older puppies or adults who were wanted when they were born, and whose owners for whatever reason later decided they no longer could/would keep them, but for the most part spay/neuter is not really the reason we have such high shelter #'s
I know I went a little OT but for more on this topic, here's a good website to visit...
www.pet-law.com and this article...
http://www.pet-law.com/euth1_intro.html
 

ToscasMom

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#59
Wow you coulda fooled me. Where I am there is always a high incidence of shelter animals that are siblings from litters. We even have a group that takes nothing but unwanted litters in hopes that we will find fewer abandoned litters in parks-- and they are overloaded. Virtually all of these litters are mixes. And I live in a city, not a rural area. I guess we must be the exception to the rule.

Do you have a source for your percentage stats as it pertains to the country in general? I would be interested.
 

showpug

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#60
I think a person should base when and if they spay/neuter their dog on their individual lifestyle. But, I feel it's very important people know the risks involved with keeping a bitch intact long term.

I worked in a vet clinic for a long time. We saw a LOT of mammary cancer in older intact bitches. It wasn't rare and these dogs died. It most likely could have been prevented had their owners had them spayed early on. We also saw dogs die and need emergency surgery from pyometra. This was very scary and very real for me. It took me a long time to get comfortable keeping intact dogs because I dealt with dogs firsthand that died from related illnesses.
 

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