THIS is what makes me so angry....

....about what has resulted from the originally intended purposeful, meaningful breeding of Labradoodles. Check out this mill...

http://www.rivergumdesignerpuppies.com.au/index.html

Even the name makes me sick. Have a look at the puppy health section and their explanation for hereditary problems......grrrrrrrrrrrrr

Compare it to Cloudcatcher Labradoodles - widely considered the one and only place to get Labradoodles in Australia, and pretty much their only reputable breeder. Such a difference, why can't they all be like this?

http://www.cloudcatcherlabradoodles.com/index.html

omg, so they are basically saying that their puppies are going to have health problems, and there is no way around that....

from what i understand, and i dont have the best understanding of these genetic problems, proper testing WILL show if a dog is going to have a problem, and if so, it should not be bred, right?? Thats like, the whole point of proper breeding, so those problems can be completely avoided (or can they never be avoided?) correct?

I like that CloudCatcher site, most information I've seen pertaining to actual "breed" things yet. It's not a love-fest of "cute cuddly and totally non-shedding!".

Now I know what to call the F1 Labradoodle that comes to daycare all the time; he's got a Hair coat. A few others have the Fleece coat, I think one might be Wool.

By now, shouldn't people only be breeding "Labradoodle/Labradoodle"?

I just don't see how it's possible to gain much by just spitting out first generation dogs over and over again. JMO. I would think that some of the designer breeders out there would at least TRY to back their claims of perfection against purebreds up a little more. Oh well.

I'll stick to my purebreds, and be a "purebred snob" like I'm usually called. Hehe.

So.. do the CloudCatcher people breed a labradoodle to a Labradoodle? That's how it seems.. And other places are still breeding a Lab to a Poodle.. ? I am confused yet again..

I wasn't really pointing out either breeder. Just in general. Most breeder sites I see for these dogs, the breeders still have Labrador to Poodle breedings. To me, it defeats the entire purpose of their 'aim'. And really, their aim doesn't seem to have been met at all. I have yet to see a Labradoodle-swept service dog nation anywhere. They just aren't stable enough yet, and they've been around for a long time now.

the way i always thought was that,

you bred a poodle to a lab

then a labradoodle to a labradoodle

and then a labradoodle to a labradoodle

but if you bred a labradoodle to a poodle or labradoodle to a lab you arent creating a labradoodle anymore, you creating some crazy mix

so how come they are breeding a labradoodle to a toy poodle

http://www.cloudcatcherlabradoodles.com/Labradoodle_present_litters.htm

Sorry but neither one looks that reputable to me. Sure Cloudcatcher looks better but still not like a responsible breeder.

wow you learn something new every day, i never knew HEREDITARY and genetic health problems were ALWAYS caused by besity, poor diet and over excersize *rolls eyes and finnishes sarcastic tone*

Drezza, you are right, river gum are saying, we dont cert our dogs, hips, knees hearts eyes or anythign else for that matter, but if your puppy gets sick...well its not our fault, sucks for you...and we'll offer you a new dog because we know that by this point the dogs 3-4 yrs old and your already in love and would never say yes to it...

and might i ask what the pont of a retriverdor is...why would you cross a LABRADOR RETRIVER...with a GOLDEN RETRIVER...what we trying to make super retriver here?!

Actually, a lady I worked with had a blind husband.

(this is WAY before the whole designer mutt thing came along)

He had a Labrador x Golden mix. They bred her at the training facility because they liked different things from the Lab & Golden of course she was a WORKING dog and spends her life helping someone who cant see.

Just to be a cutsy dog, I see no point.

Well the second site is still unfortunately a good example of my main pet peeve about those labradoodle breeders... they produce way too many litters. If they cared more about getting the breed recognized than making money, maybe I would 'buy it', but for now it just seems that their main purpose is making money.

Sad really, those dogs are really adorable.

I agree with you about the number of litters - I think there is such a demand for these dogs here that they have an `excuse' to breed often and many puppies. But I would still rather see my dog come from a place like Cloudcatcher than the other link I posted - and so, so many other horrific mills the churn out doodles like there's no tomorrow.

I know a fair bit of the background of Cloudcatchers and they are highly regarded in animal circles here - by vets especially. It's not always easy to tell the truth off websites - they are promotional tools, and they will, yes, look like they are in it for the money.

If you read anything Doberluv has to say about gene pools and so forth, the introduction of a lab or a poodle into the breeding circle occasionally will make a lot more sense. I of course don't have anywhere near the knowledge that she has, but she's explained it in another thread.....

Apologies to Rubylove,

Your dogs are very attractive and from your posts I can tell they are a lot of fun. But still ... I just don't get this whole des-dog thing. I just don't see why a labradoodle, or a borador or a puggle is any different or any better than any mix you can get down at the pound. I'd have to say in fairness that a good dog is a good dog whether it is a pedigree or a Heinzes 57. But why pay for one of these mixes when you could rescue a dog from a shelter?

Out of interest (and perhaps to give me a bit of a more balanced view on the matter) I'd really like to know if you have a DD why you chose that particular mix. I feel like I am missing a part of the puzzle here.

Well, I'm actually very against the whole `designer dog' thing and have argued this in many, many threads on the topic. I hate what has happened since the Labradoodle was first introduced.

We chose Labradoodles, really, because we wanted Standard Poodles, and none of the breeders that we were able to realistically reach in the whole state had any litters at that time. We had just moved in together, all romantic, and we really wanted a puppy. We did a lot of research and I came across the ILAA (International Labradoodle Association) and read all about their history and the purpose for the original cross. So we decided on Labradoodles - not because they are considered a `designer dog' (because they weren't, intially, they were intended to be working dogs - the whole DD idea came about from money-grabbing puppy-millers who saw a real profit there). They had the characteristics we were after, and they have done nothing but exceed our expectations.

Having said that, next time it's shelter puppies for us, for sure. Definitely. I didn't know anywhere near as much then as I do now, and my attitudes have changed a bit - not towards Labradoodles, because I don't put them in the designer dog category (although I know lots of people do, but they don't belong there), but towards breeding in general.

Thanks for your answer Rubylove.

It's the money-grabbing-puppy-millers bit that get's me too. If anyone would buy a dog based on its being this year's flavour, what are they going to do if next year the hot pet is a chinchilla? Yet more dogs in the shelter, I bet.

Eeexactly. It really makes me burn. My best mate's sister is going to `breed' her Shih-Tsu - just once though! And my friend is going to have two of the puppies, `they're just so low-maintenance'. I just can't explain to them why that is so wrong. They look at me blankly `Yeah, tree-hugging greenie' I KNOW is what they are thinking. I'm sure my friend would understand if I really explained it thoroughly, but her sister is a real, fundamentalist Christian, and their family view it as their dog's natural God-given right to have a litter. It makes me want to scream.

I got to talking to a new client today about her lovely doodle...who is one of the shedding variety. Had to explain to her the different coat types and why 99% of Doodle breeders in the US are still F1 and can't guarantee coat types, etc and tried to give some information on how to keep the hair and dander down, since both her and her husband have allergies and got the dog for that reason. I pointed her our direction so hopefully she joins.

So.. I'm still confused.. is there ANY breeder if labradoodles who breed a labradoodle to a labradoodle to get labradoodle pups?? If not.. why aren't they? How are they ever going to get a breed recognized if no ones is doing that?

Sorry to say this but ANYONE breeding MUTTS is not responsible... period

That is a naive and close-minded comment. You cannot join part of a discussion and then make blind, blanket statements without any other arguments to back up your premise.

How do you think that our purebred dogs today got that way? Through selective breeding, and, in many cases, through carefully planned and monitored crosses. If you have more to say to reinforce your point of view, let's hear it - this is a place where everyone can feel free to discuss what they think, as long as they actually discuss it, rather than trying to finalise an argument with no argument at all