? about tapping puppy's nose.

Two people have told my wife that if you want your puppy to stop play biting, give him a tap/slap on his nose. My wife did it three times to our puppy. Twice it seemed to work but one time, the pup started barking at her. I don't think this is a good idea. Should my wife be doing this?

I have heard a lot of other people use this technique.

However, I prefer never to "hit" my dogs, even though a light tap will obviously not hurt them. If your wife is doing it very lightly like you describe, the puppy probably thinks she is playing.

Instead, when the puppy bites your wife have her remove her hand and give the pup something suitable to chew, such as a toy or bone. If this does not work, have her move away and "ignore" the puppy for a few minutes each time they bite her.

Most puppies do outgrow this stage.

Good Luck

Elissa

Hi Dirk,

I am not a trainer so all I have to say is only MHO and what has worked for me. No, I don't think tapping him on the nose is the right approach. You might also read here or there to thrust your hand further in the pup's mouth or grab his muzzle. Any of these or similar reactions startle or discomfort the pup.

You need to bear in mind that in biting (or mouthing) the pup is not being naughty. It is natural puppy behaviour. If you ever watch a bundle of pups playing together you'll see a lot of nipping and mouthing going on and maybe even hear the occasional yelp. They are play-fighting and in the process are learning bite-inhibition.

There is no-one in the world more important to your pup then you and your family members. He craves your attention. Quite simply if the pup gets too rough withdraw your attention. The game stops as soon as you feel those sharp little needles on the back of your hand. Get up, walk away and ignore him completely. You might also let out a high pitched yelp at the moment you feel the teeth.

He'll soon learn that if he wants to keep playing biting is not acceptable.

My brother let out a yelp when his pup was play biting, and the pup immediately stopped. I would try that.

I agree with Skyeboxer. Slapping at your pup will cause confusion, frustration, distrust of humans and ultiminatey aggression or a shutting down of the dog's psyche. Never hit a dog for any reason. They do not understand that. If it's not a hard slap, but a "tap," that is meaningless to a dog anyhow. The only thing he might think is that you're playing with him which will only serve to reinforce his biting.

Dogs learn by reinforcement. Period. Remove the reinforcer, in this case, your attention and your playing. Be consistant and keep it up. Everyone who interacts with him must do the same. It isn't going to change your pup into an adult over night. I recommend you read some books and fast because if you don't know anything about training a pup, you're going to have big problems.

Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson *****
The Power of Positive Training by Pat Miller
Don't Shoot the Dog Karen Pryor
The Other End of the Leash Patricia McConnell.

There are others but there's a start.

I also recommend you get your pup in a puppy obedience class with a trainer who uses gentle methods.

Make sure your pup gets plenty of romping exercise outside and give him brain exercise....a few 5 minute sessions of showing him sit, down, come, getting use to a leash etc. Basic obedience is a must. Learn how though first. You can browse the forums and ask questions. But those books will be the greatest help of all.

Thanks to all for your responses.

Doberluv, we have been doing the "Ouch, no bite." and then ignore him thing. Unfortunately, we live in a society that wants immediate results so we were tempted to try another way. Thanks for your great advice. I will try to get the whole family to stay the course of what we learned in obedience school rathr than finding a fast solution.

i know a few people that will pinch the dogs lip to let it know to stop biting.
they do it pretty hard too. i wouldnt do it myself

I think the yelling ouch thing would work really good. But I would stray away from tapping/hitting. =( Just my opinion

You're so right. But don't be tempted to switch from one thing to the next. The pup needs a steady and ample supply of reinforcements for any behavior to change. Since dogs do what works, what he's been doing has been working so far, so when you change methods, he'll keep trying for a while until it is apparent that it's not working for him anymore. That can take a few weeks. It's like your remote control. You know it always gives you a reinforcer when you push the channel changing buttons. (the reinforcer being the changing of the channels) It's always worked. So you continue to push the buttons to get your reinforcer. Then one day, it doesn't work. What do you do? You try it again, harder, aim better. You try a few more times and then you figure your batteries are dead and you quit and go get fresh batteries. So, the pup keeps trying to do what he's been doing because it's been reinforcing. If it hadn't been reinforcing, the behavior wouldn't exist in the first place. Now you start ignoring him, removing the reinforcer. He keeps trying and maybe even trying harder. This can go on for a couple of weeks. Then finally, since there is no payoff in it for him (make sure there isn't....not ever) he will try something else. If you have that something else paying off as you go, that's the behavior he'll adopt.

So, it takes dogs longer to give up on a behavior than it takes us to realize our batteries are dead. But it's the same idea. It's behaviorism. You can think of millions of examples like that. You turn your key in your car ignition and you expect it to turn over the engine. Then one day, it doesn't work. You try again, and again before you finally give up. IF, however it starts on the 5th try, you might learn to try it 5 times before you give up. So, if you ignore your pup and remove the reinforcer for his biting and then you or someone messes up and gives him a reinforcer (attention, playtime).....even once, it will tend to strengthen his rotten behavior. He'll learn to try harder and continue longer in order to get the payoff. Does that make sense? Have patience and be consistant, reinforce the behavior you like and don't give a reinforcer for the behavior you don't want.

Usually the reinforcer for biting, jumping, getting rambunctious with the dog's owner is attention, playtime, speaking (even saying "No") looking at, touching, good attention, bad attention. It doesn't matter. Some behaviors get reinforced with environmental payoffs, not your attention. And some behaviors are self rewarding, like getting into the garbage. Ignoring that won't do any good. He's being reinforced by getting a hold of something to eat. Or getting into something that's fun to play with. So, you have to think....what is reinforcing to this dog for this or that behavior? Then make sure he doesn't get it again.

Thanks again, Doberluv. It's obvious that you care deeply about dogs and that you want to make a difference in their lives.

You're welcome. Thanks also. I do care deeply about dogs and their owners too. It saddens and frustrates me when I see people having a hard time with their dogs or puppies and I just want to try, if I can to hopefully say one little thing that might make a difference....one little word or phrase somewhere in my often painfully long winded posts. LOL.

I'm glad this subject came up. We were at our training class Monday and I saw the woman who has the shepherd SMACK him on the nose for not doing what she told him. It wasn't a tap either. I mean she smacked him. I got a sense that one of these days, that dog will smack her back. I didn't get the sense that this was a first time thing if you get my drift. All eyes were on her. The trainer was definitely not pleased but he didn't chastise her in the class. As the class wound down though, he had her and her dog in a corner for a talk.

if he starts biting, mouthing, anythingelse unacceptable just stop the play right there, ignore him, walk away for about 5 minutes, then play again, if he does it again, then repeat the step

eventually he will get that doing anything unacceptable like that will result in play ending - negative result