Shelties

Melissa_W

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#21
LabBreeder said:
WOW Skye is beautiful! :)

But yes, some breeds have coat color related issues. Yellow Labs, for example, are more prone to sun burn, skin conditions, skin cancer from sun exposure, etc. due to the light pigment. (Or so I've heard!)
Thanks LabBreeder. :D He's a little dirty in those pics, you can see it on his paws. ;)

That's interesting about the yellow labs... I'm gonna do some research about Shelties and see what I can find. Oh, and if you have any links about it Stevinski, I'd definitely like to see. :D
 

Melissa_W

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#22
Stevinski, are you sure that you aren't thinking of double merles?

Merle genetics
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/Merle.html
Sable merles are no more likely to have health problems than any other color, and they are equally good companions. Many do have colors that are not accepted in the show ring, either because they have blue or merle eyes or because the mottling produced by the merle gene is too obvious. The real arguement against sable merles is that they may be mistaken for normal sables. If two such sable merles were mated together, the resulting litter could contain defective whites. What a shock for the breeder expecting normal, healthy puppies!
Sheltie FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dogs-faq/breeds/shelties/
Blue Merles are genetically black Shelties whose coat color has been
modified by the merling gene. This makes them appear to be dappled
silver and black, usually with black patches. Blue merles also differ
from other Shelties in that they may have blue or brown eyes (or one
of each), or merle eyes, which appear to be both brown and blue. This
does not indicate any vision deficiency.
Blue merles are also usually
marked with varying amounts of white, and may or may not have tan
markings. Those without tan markings are called Bi-Blues.

There are two kinds of white Shelties. One type is called the
"color-headed white." "White factor" determines the Sheltie's
so-called Dutch or Irish markings (the white collar, bib and cuffs)
which are associated with Lassie but are not required for the show
ring. Some heavily white-factored dogs have white haunches and legs, a
huge white collar, and completely white shoulders and forelegs. Such a
dog may have so much white on its body that only a "saddle" or a few
patches of color remain. Its head, however, contains no more white
than any other Sheltie's might. (This is similar to what is called
parti-color in other breeds). At present, the AKC Standard severely
penalizes any show Sheltie that is over 50% white. However,
color-headed white Collies have long been accepted in the show ring,
and many fanciers believe color-headed white Shelties should be also.
In any event, color headed whites are completely normal. They can be
shown at non-AKC shows and are entirely suitable as pets or obedience
dogs.

The same cannot be said for the white "double" or homozygous merles
which result from merle-merle breedings. (Usually the parents are both
blues, but there are rare sable merles as well. Sheltie color genetics
are very complicated, and no one should attempt breeding without a
thorough understanding of all the possibilities.) The "double merle"
usually has a great deal of white on its head as well as its body.
These dogs are blind unless a black patch appears over an eye, and
deaf unless a black patch appears over an ear. They frequently have
heart and other problems as well, and are not recommended as pets.


With the exception of the "double" merle described above, Shelties of
all colors make equally satisfactory companions. There is no
connection between a Sheltie's temperament or trainability and its
coat color.
Although the sables continue to be popular with the
public, many breed fanciers prefer the blue merles and tri-colors.
There's a lot of other good stuff in that FAQ. If you are thinking of a sheltie, you should check it out. ;)
 
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femke

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#23
I think that's the thing yeah, I remember reading about that as well.

I just have the one shelties, Penny. She's a tri-colour.

I reaaaaaaly want another one but can't afford it right now. If I do get another one I would like a male either a sable or a blue merle. I find with the blue merles some of them I absolutely LOVE and others I dont like the look of them too much. So I guess it would all depend on the pup. Maybe some day....

BTW Melissa yours is absolutely gorgeous!! (have seen him in previous pictures too)
 

Melissa_W

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#24
femke said:
I think that's the thing yeah, I remember reading about that as well.

I just have the one shelties, Penny. She's a tri-colour.

I reaaaaaaly want another one but can't afford it right now. If I do get another one I would like a male either a sable or a blue merle. I find with the blue merles some of them I absolutely LOVE and others I dont like the look of them too much. So I guess it would all depend on the pup. Maybe some day....

BTW Melissa yours is absolutely gorgeous!! (have seen him in previous pictures too)
Skye says thank you. :)
 

stevinski

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#25
i always thought tht melissa W had a rough collie but i must be thinkin on someone else lol!

i will check into the merle thing, cause i always thought that they had health issues and a way to reduce the risk of health issues was to breed a merle to a different colour such as a tri or a sable, but if you bred a merle to a merle you were almost certain to have issues.

i will check anyway lol
 

stevinski

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#26
i got this from the internet:
Merle is actually a heterozygote of an incomplete dominance gene. If two such dogs are mated, on the average one quarter of the puppies will be double merles and some percentage of these double merle puppies could have eye defects and/or could be deaf. Knowledgeable breeders who want to produce merle puppies mate a merle with a nonmerle dog; roughly half the puppies will be merles without the risk of vision or hearing defects.

so basically its only double merles that have the issues

http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/Merle.html heres a link to some info on merle genetics

i still want a sable or tri-factor sheltie though lol
i might look into the merles
 

SummerRiot

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#27
You can breed a merle to a merle - you just might end up with a lot of 'white' on the babies. I haven't known any breeders that do breed them though. Its usually Merle to Tris


Femke - there is a special shampoo that you can get Penny as well to get her coat nice and black again. Its specifically for dark coloured dogs. I'll have to find out what its called I THINK its called "Blue Black" and its sold at dog shows in the stands. Its AMAZING stuff though.

The Gronendael owners use it to get the red tinge out of their coats as well.
Just be careful around her white chest etc. :)
 

Melissa_W

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#28
SummerRiot said:
You can breed a merle to a merle - you just might end up with a lot of 'white' on the babies. I haven't known any breeders that do breed them though. Its usually Merle to Tris


Femke - there is a special shampoo that you can get Penny as well to get her coat nice and black again. Its specifically for dark coloured dogs. I'll have to find out what its called I THINK its called "Blue Black" and its sold at dog shows in the stands. Its AMAZING stuff though.

The Gronendael owners use it to get the red tinge out of their coats as well.
Just be careful around her white chest etc. :)
Yup, you "can" do it, but you shouldn't do it.

You mate merles with Tris, like you said, or mate them with bi-blacks to get a bi-blue. I like the bi-blacks a lot too, very pretty...



This dog is named Skylar, hehehe... I think he's a really pretty bi-blue.

 

stevinski

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#29
they are both gorgeous dogs Mellisa W!
i was just wondering what is a bi-blue? like what does the blue stand for, same wid the black,
some of the colours are so confusing lol
i no what a tri-factor sable is i think its a sheltie whos parents where a sable and a tri
i might be wrong, please correct me if i am lol
 

stevinski

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#30
i would really prefer a sable but now i know that merles dont have many issues,
i most want a sable, second tri and then a merle lol but colour shouldnt really be the main factor in choosin a show dog, i wouldnt really want a black and white though lol
 

Beanie

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#31
stevinski said:
they are both gorgeous dogs Mellisa W!
i was just wondering what is a bi-blue? like what does the blue stand for, same wid the black,
some of the colours are so confusing lol
i no what a tri-factor sable is i think its a sheltie whos parents where a sable and a tri
i might be wrong, please correct me if i am lol
What the "Merleing Gene" does is make certain parts of the fur lighter (or it makes the topcoat lighter so that the undercoat shows through lighter, I don't rememeber exactly which.) It doesn't effect the whole coat, though, so a blue will always technically have *some* black as well.
A bi-black is just what it sounds like... two colours, black & white. So then the bi-blue is the same, but with the merle gene, so they're blue & white!

A tri-colour is black, white, and tan... and a blue merle is a tri-coloured sheltie but with the merle - in theory they'd turn out blue, white, & tan!

Sables, since you said you probably wanted one, are typically brown, white, & black - but even within the sable, they can vary! Auggie is a blonde sable/apricot sable/red sable or whatever else you might call it... he has very very little black on him. OTOH, my sister's shelties are both "shaded sables" - they have soooo much black on them! Sometimes it can be hard to tell when they're puppies how much black they'll have when they get older. Auggie had a black stripe down his back that we expected to expand and darken up - but, surprise, it actually vanished instead! Er, whoops! He also lost some of the white he had on his face... he had a white lightning-bolt mark on his forehead (we jokingly said he was Harry Potter) that now has turned into a tiny bit of white that you can only see if you get really close and know what to look for! =P
So be prepared when you find a breeder and pick your puppy... your puppy's appearance will likely change when he gets older!


Hope that helps... it definitely can be confusing, LOL! Personally I want a blue merle for my next sheltie. =3
 

SummerRiot

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#32
Aww a new Sheltie owner :) Welcome to the board :)

Melissa W - I LOVE the bi-black Shelties.. one kicked Riots butt in Puppy Group EVERY SINGLE TIME lol It was a stunning little guy though. I wanted to chat to the owner about him, but Riot had his next class right after.
I'm sure I"ll see him again and try and snap a picture next time lol
 

stevinski

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#33
yay!

we're getting a small sheltie club on here lol!
accept i dont really own one lol!
but i am going to lol!
 

Melissa_W

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#34
Beanie said:
What the "Merleing Gene" does is make certain parts of the fur lighter (or it makes the topcoat lighter so that the undercoat shows through lighter, I don't rememeber exactly which.) It doesn't effect the whole coat, though, so a blue will always technically have *some* black as well.
A bi-black is just what it sounds like... two colours, black & white. So then the bi-blue is the same, but with the merle gene, so they're blue & white!

A tri-colour is black, white, and tan... and a blue merle is a tri-coloured sheltie but with the merle - in theory they'd turn out blue, white, & tan!

Sables, since you said you probably wanted one, are typically brown, white, & black - but even within the sable, they can vary! Auggie is a blonde sable/apricot sable/red sable or whatever else you might call it... he has very very little black on him. OTOH, my sister's shelties are both "shaded sables" - they have soooo much black on them! Sometimes it can be hard to tell when they're puppies how much black they'll have when they get older. Auggie had a black stripe down his back that we expected to expand and darken up - but, surprise, it actually vanished instead! Er, whoops! He also lost some of the white he had on his face... he had a white lightning-bolt mark on his forehead (we jokingly said he was Harry Potter) that now has turned into a tiny bit of white that you can only see if you get really close and know what to look for! =P
So be prepared when you find a breeder and pick your puppy... your puppy's appearance will likely change when he gets older!


Hope that helps... it definitely can be confusing, LOL! Personally I want a blue merle for my next sheltie. =3
Well said! :)
 

Melissa_W

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#35
SummerRiot said:
Aww a new Sheltie owner :) Welcome to the board :)

Melissa W - I LOVE the bi-black Shelties.. one kicked Riots butt in Puppy Group EVERY SINGLE TIME lol It was a stunning little guy though. I wanted to chat to the owner about him, but Riot had his next class right after.
I'm sure I"ll see him again and try and snap a picture next time lol
Yeah, the bi-blacks are really sharp! I would love to see a pic. :)
 

stevinski

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#36
btw sorry i keep using the same post, but its just easier then cloggin up the forum with lots of posts on the same subject.

ok well since some of you guys love shelties first i thought i would share some of my favourite links which you guys might like:

my favourite!: http://surftosheltie.se/

really good too!: http://www.dogpatch.org/sheltie/

those two are my favourite! i've got loads but there mostly to clubs and breeder lists, and magazines, and theres links to most of them on those sites!

and i have another question

ok now this might sound silly but as i am wanting to show my future sheltie i have been looking at pics of some CH and i have found alot of difference in them

mostly in coat type and build i guess:

i have found two kinds really

1. the long coat which is close to the floor with a sort of dome round the face and more stronger face

2. shorter coat and more foxy face.

i prefer the first kind myself
and at first i thought it was because the foxy ones were girls and they had less of a superb show coat.

i will find some pics to show you the difference i mean.
 

stevinski

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#37

this is the type with the more foxy expression


this is the type with the stronger face imo

you might not be able to see any difference but just thought i would mention it lol,
 

stevinski

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#38
sorry gor bring up an old post but i needed too cause my post is relevent to my last comment in here,

OMG i just made a huge breakthrough, well i may not seem tht big too you guys but i just read this article tht explained it to me and made everything soo clear,

i have this picture tht shows the difference i just trying to upload it
i just found out that the dogs with the look i prefered were from american show lines, and the dogs with the more foxy expression are from UK lines
 
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#39
Brandi is from Grandgable Kennels in Canada. She is from ch Grandgables It's Show Time and ch Grandgables Foxy Lady. Her lines do trace back to Austrailian kennels as well.

This is Brandi's sire


I don't have a picture of Foxy Lady to share.

Here is Brandi, she is Grandgables She's a Show Girl
 

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