How to break a bad habit?

maxfox426

maxfox426

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#1
Morgan has been doing very well with his training... aside from one thing.

He always interrupts our training sessions by looking down and checking the ground/floor for dropped treats.

I will admit, that I am completely at fault for this because I'm a clutz. A lot of our early training sessions involved me dropping treats all over the place. I always tried to exercise "leave it" when that would happen, but it seems that it wasn't enough to discourage this habit.

Now, I am much better coordinated with him during training. I've figured it out so that I don't drop treats hardly at all anymore. But after any reward part of training, Morgan will immediately look down and check the ground for more... almost every time. It stalls our progress, and is really annoying.

We have gone back and revisited the "look at me" focusing game, and he is very good at it. We have practiced some controlled "leave it" situations, and he is very good with those, too. I have started doing more training indoors (he tends to do this more if we are outside). But if we move on to work on something else, he is looking at the ground again.

What else can I do to remind him that he needs to focus on me, and that the ground/floor will never be as rewarding as I am?


If you need more details about my training, please ask and I will fill you in. I just don't know what factors I need to include to get help!

Thank you!
 
B

bjdobson

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Now, I am much better coordinated with him during training. I've figured it out so that I don't drop treats hardly at all anymore.
Click to expand...
So you do still occasionally drop treats? You can't blame the dog for this one. Until you NEVER EVER drop another treat, I doubt you can make this go away.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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IMO this is an attention problem. So, work on positive methods to keep his attention. I might also leash the dog to my belt so that he can't quite reach the floor.

Another thing to try is CAPTURE this behavior with a command. I always tell my dogs "get it!" in a happy tone of voice when I drop something and I know they are going to go for it. Now they don't UNLESS I say "get it!"

then you can practice "get it" and "Leave it". :D
 
maxfox426

maxfox426

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RedyreRottweilers said:
IMO this is an attention problem. So, work on positive methods to keep his attention. I might also leash the dog to my belt so that he can't quite reach the floor.

Another thing to try is CAPTURE this behavior with a command. I always tell my dogs "get it!" in a happy tone of voice when I drop something and I know they are going to go for it. Now they don't UNLESS I say "get it!"

then you can practice "get it" and "Leave it". :D
Click to expand...


I agree wholeheartedly that this is an attention problem, I am just running out of ideas as to how to reinforce positive attention. I have been doing a lot of your focusing game. Do you have any other games up your sleeve that would teach him the same sort of thing? I've tried making up some games myself using his toys, but I'm just afraid I'm not nearly creative enough to keep up with my boy! :p

THANK YOU for the "get it!" idea! Should I try to train this in some way, like by "accidentally" dropping more treats and then attaching the new command? Or just save it for the times that I happen to drop something? Which would be least confusing for him to understand?
 
Kayla

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I know this might sound like backwards logic, but I purporsely throw a large percentage of my treats on the ground in a training session. The result- in the very beginning I ran into some sniffing on the ground as you are describing, but very quickly I found his attention was back on me, as the treats on the ground became contigent on his marker signal, I too occasionally accidently drop treats on the ground without clicking especially when heeling. This is easy to fix by altering how you are holding your treats, perhaps only hold one or two at a time and have the others out of sight but within reach.

I have heard they do this at clicker expo to increase attention on handlers because food on the floor is no longer random (and remember a variable ratio of reinforcement is the best way to make those bad habits stick;)) but on a contigency basis, so most dogs figure out quickly its worth paying attention to mom or dad to earn that click and then get their treat off the ground.

Just my 0.02

Kayla
 
Doberluv

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Great posts by Red and Kayla. Yes....keep at it. He'll keep trying and trying hard for a while still since it always worked before. He just needs some doggie zen....that direct access isn't how ya get the treats. By leaving it alone, he WILL get the treats. And they should come from different hiding places.....mix it up. I also like the idea of putting it on cue to get permission to "get it" from the floor. Just keep in mind.....direct access mustn't work. Focusing on you first or doint whatever you want him to do FIRST is what gets him the good stuff.

When Lyric, my Doberman was in puppy class, I was such a clutz. I'd drop Honey nut Cheerios all over the floor every time I reached into my pocket and I not only had my dog looking around on the ground, but everyone else's dogs too. ROFFFFFFFFFFF.
 
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Smartdogs

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Its simple really.
You reward good Behavior with treats.
But looking down and checking the floor is not good behavior.
So do not drop treats but start dropping the opposite.
Drop things which put off or irritate or dispel the dog.
 
corgipower

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teach him a leave it command. Teach him to leave treats that are dropped. Use treats on the floor as a proofing exercise ~ he should ignore them and focus on you to get a reward, and that reward should come from you. Never allow him to get treats from the floor without a command to do so.

Often when I drop treats, I'll use the moment to teach my dog to ignore that treat and focus on me and he'll get rewarded by me. occasionally I'll command him to go get the treat on the floor - if more than one, then each is separate ~ I teach him to get on treat, whether by following my point to the treat or by searching for it. After he gets one treat, he should check back with me for further instructions.

I regularly drop treats by accident, and sometimes my dog drops a treat. I never train without enough treats to be able to reward him from me ~ my hand or my mouth ~ even with treats on the floor.

Another exercise that can help get him to focus on you instead of the treats is to hold a treat in your hand and move your hand out to the side ~ hold your arm about shoulder height and parallel to the floor. When the dog looks away from your hand and at your face, mark it and reward. If you reward with the treat in the hand he just ignored, bring it towards your face then give him the treat so that the focus is still on your face. Otherwise, reward from another source of treats. Switch hands often and even use both hands for the ignored treats.

Keep in mind to be patient and keep working on it. It takes longer to untrain a behavior than to train one.
 
maxfox426

maxfox426

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corgipower said:
teach him a leave it command. Teach him to leave treats that are dropped. Use treats on the floor as a proofing exercise ~ he should ignore them and focus on you to get a reward, and that reward should come from you. Never allow him to get treats from the floor without a command to do so.

Often when I drop treats, I'll use the moment to teach my dog to ignore that treat and focus on me and he'll get rewarded by me. occasionally I'll command him to go get the treat on the floor - if more than one, then each is separate ~ I teach him to get on treat, whether by following my point to the treat or by searching for it. After he gets one treat, he should check back with me for further instructions.

I regularly drop treats by accident, and sometimes my dog drops a treat. I never train without enough treats to be able to reward him from me ~ my hand or my mouth ~ even with treats on the floor.

Another exercise that can help get him to focus on you instead of the treats is to hold a treat in your hand and move your hand out to the side ~ hold your arm about shoulder height and parallel to the floor. When the dog looks away from your hand and at your face, mark it and reward. If you reward with the treat in the hand he just ignored, bring it towards your face then give him the treat so that the focus is still on your face. Otherwise, reward from another source of treats. Switch hands often and even use both hands for the ignored treats.

Keep in mind to be patient and keep working on it. It takes longer to untrain a behavior than to train one.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I actually have played that focus game with him since he was itty-bitty, but I had never thought about bringing the treat to my face before giving it to him. Thank you!

And he does know "leave it", and if I say it he will stop going for the treat and he will look back up to me, but it doesn't stop him from checking the ground in between.

I think that the key you all have pointed out, though, is how I have to make my accidental treat drops more of a learning experience to look back at me, rather than a "bad habit" reflex...


In short, you guys rock. :hail: :hail:

Sometimes I think that I need more training than Morgan does. :lol-sign:
 
corgipower

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maxfox426 said:
And he does know "leave it", and if I say it he will stop going for the treat and he will look back up to me, but it doesn't stop him from checking the ground in between.
Click to expand...
As long as you're diligent in not allowing him the chance to self reward, the checking in between will extinguish.

maxfox426 said:
Sometimes I think that I need more training than Morgan does. :lol-sign:
Click to expand...
Well, yea. That's always how it goes. :)
 
lizzybeth727

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I don't have much more to add... Except to answer this:

maxfox426 said:
THANK YOU for the "get it!" idea! Should I try to train this in some way, like by "accidentally" dropping more treats and then attaching the new command? Or just save it for the times that I happen to drop something? Which would be least confusing for him to understand?
Click to expand...
I'd spend a couple of training sessions working on this as your main criteria. You could do easy behaviors that Morgan knows pretty well, so that you don't have to focus so much on the behaviors, and focus on dropping treats and having him not get them until you say he can.

I had this same problem recently with a dog I was training. During our first Loose Leash Walking session, I think I had really crumbly treats or maybe I was just having a clutsy day, but I did drop the first several on the floor. Usually I let the dog pick them up, because my focus in those sessions is just capturing her in heel position; but after the second or third, her nose was on the ground every time I clicked. So I started "accidently" dropping treats, and I'd block her so that she couldn't get them - step on them, step in between her and the treats, etc. I'd treat her when she looked away from the treats and back at me, and just walk forward while I was giving her the treat, "luring" her away from the one on the floor. It didn't take long before she got the idea (although I do think she was a particularly bright dog), but I still practice "accidently" dropping treats on the floor often just to maintain that behavior.
 
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