Returning a dog to the breeder - Questions/Rant

Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
7,099
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Illinois
Yeah I did miss that.. although, 14 months is a long time IMO, even with a major surgery!

I'm just saying.. had any breeder I know had something like this happen, it wouldn't have been "swept under the rug". No way.

Well, considering the breeder has a website, I would assume she checks her email, for puppy inquires and such. But that's just me assuming. I know nothing about the breeder.. just that most breeders with websites and email info. on their websites check their email often.
Yes, I find it a strange and I would have liked it if it hadn't been kept quiet so long but I can also understand just wanting to move past it initially and get the dog into good hands and healthy. Then to have it in the back of your mind building and building to end up all coming out over a year later. I also get how people not really in the internet/computer world don't think of broadcasting it online.

One thing I've noticed is breeders do keep things tight to the vest sometimes even if it ends up hurting them.

It's one of the reasons I would really like to hear from the breeder.

That being said it doesn't really change anything.

ETA: My breeder has a website, a forum and a kennel facebook page. You would think he's computer savvy. So not the case. At all. Whatsoever. Pretty much to the point of being funny how not computer literate he is
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
Sometimes non-savvy breeders will barter things like website set-up for partial payment on a pup, so just because someone has a site, it doesn't necessarily follow that they bother with it much or have much of an online presence.

Fila breeders tend to stay within their own, and aren't much more social than their dogs -- unless you're talking Filas ;)
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
2,434
Likes
1
Points
0
Location
Oregon
I think this was mentioned, was the breeder attempting to bring neglect/abuse charges? If so, it might be smart to not go posting your evidence everywhere until your chances of getting charges runs out.
 

Toller_08

Active Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
8,359
Likes
1
Points
36
I don't really have anything to add to this thread other than that I don't feel it was up to the breeder to let the entire online world know what happened.

If my Doberman breeder ended up taking a puppy back in the awful condition that this puppy was in (and it most certainly was in terrible condition), chances are she would have told and warned other reputable Doberman breeders of the individual should they seek out another Doberman puppy. But unfortunately, should that same individual seek out a dog of another breed, that new breeder of the new breed would not know what happened prior unless they were to personally speak to my breeder or somehow got word of it from other Doberman breeders. That said, my breeder is not online savvy at all. Doesn't do FB, doesn't have a website, etc. She's retired from breeding now, but when she was still breeding, she got hundreds of e-mails a week and it was hard to keep up and e-mail everyone back. Between her own health ailments, her own dogs, her job, etc. But even so, I would imagine it would be fairly difficult to warn other dog people and breeders not in your chosen breed unless you were the type that knew how online dog forums worked or were at least Facebook savvy. So I don't think it's all that strange that she took a little bit to get back to RC and I definitely don't think it's strange that the situation was not announced publicly. I don't fault the breeder at all.

As for the rest of it: I don't know any of these people and while I'm not the first person to automatically believe a breeder after having dealt with one that looks reputable upon first glance but actually is rather decieving and dishonest, in this particular situation I think it's blatantly obvious that Teal did not like the puppy and I do not find it hard to imagine that the poor puppy did not recieve the care that it should have, so I tend to believe the breeder. The pictures she (Teal) herself posted show clearly to me that the puppy was not in good condition. A puppy should not look that thin and ribby and just overall unhealthy in a sit stay. I'd hate to see what a side profile photo instead would have showed that same day. I don't expect a Fila puppy to look as 'up' as other puppies, as Filas always kinda look a little sad to me (in a houndy way), but that puppy just does not look good regardless. Obviously none of us were there to witness anything in person, so I can't 100% say that Teal is guilty, but past things she's said and photos she's shared certainly have not helped to show that everything was ok while the puppy was in her care.

I hope this all gets sorted out somehow and that no other puppies end up in such condition again.
 
Last edited:

Romy

Taxiderpy
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
10,233
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Olympia, WA
Here is Dianna's e-mail to me. I edited out her phone number just because it seems weird to post it on Chaz, but if anybody wants it or her e-mail just PM me and I'll forward it to you.

Here are two of the vet statements on his blood work up and condition. As to Jari, she has been to my home multiple times, met me at dog shows twice and spent hours with us, had my address not only from being here but from the internet web site where I have my home address listed. I have photos of her on my site, in my home as proof.

As I told her on the phone when she had the audacity to call me a couple of weeks ago, I told her I thought she was a "piece of @#$%".

She had a copy of the contract, she never paid me in full, I only care that my kid is in a GREAT home now. After two years of 'courting' us, I believed her when she said she would be a good home. There were only two calls to me, during the two months he was with her, where I did indeed speak to her. No messages, no unreturned calls.

If you find she is trying to purchase another dog, please forward my phone number XXX-XXX-XXXX to the breeders so they may talk to me personally.

Feel free to post the information and the text as you deem fit. If anyone has the desire to debate with me, please feel free to forward them my phone number and e-mail information. I have nothing to hide and everything to share. In 17 years of dog showing and training and activities, I have had two litters. If I never have a buyer like her again, I will be happy. I have a list of people who have been to my home, either to visit or as purchasers or re-homes, who have said I may forward their contact information so they may speak in private about me and my dogs and their dispositions, I will forward that information to anyone who doubts what I am saying.

Jari should not own dogs by the exhibit of what I saw from my puppy.

Thank you and best wishes,
Dianna
de la Luna


 

~Jessie~

Chihuahua Power!
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
19,665
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Florida
Know what's weird? According to a thread from another forum started on August 15th, she made no mention of wanting to get rid of this puppy:

<removed> no other forum posts

I'm wondering if something happened where she felt she needed to ditch the puppy ASAP, so she made up how she had been "trying" to contact the breeder. If the puppy was so awesome a few days before she made this thread, then why would she want to return him to the breeder?

She had 8 dogs in August 2011 but only had 3 by the time November rolled around. Makes me think that she was fishing for excuses to get rid of that puppy ASAP.

I also wonder if she couldn't afford dog food, thus how emaciated Bullseye was. If that dog was receiving even basic care (food, water), he would NOT have looked the way he did.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Romy

Taxiderpy
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
10,233
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Olympia, WA
Know what's weird? According to a thread from another forum started on August 15th, she made no mention of wanting to get rid of this puppy:



I'm wondering if something happened where she felt she needed to ditch the puppy ASAP, so she made up how she had been "trying" to contact the breeder. If the puppy was so awesome a few days before she made this thread, then why would she want to return him to the breeder?

She had 8 dogs in August 2011 but only had 3 by the time November rolled around. Makes me think that she was fishing for excuses to get rid of that puppy ASAP.
I just e-mailed Dianna back asking specifically if Jairi ever mentioned needing to return him. Will post her reply.
 

~Jessie~

Chihuahua Power!
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
19,665
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Florida
Oh, and Jairi's photo from "August 24th" of the group shot?

Oh, Courtney. Are you going to stalk, slander, and attack me for the rest of my life?

For the record - Courtney has never met me in person or seen my dogs.

These two pictures are from 08/24/2011... this thread was started 08/26/11.







NOPE.

She posted it on AUGUST 15th.



Not sure if I can share the link to another forum on here publically, but she posted up this picture on August 15th at 5:01pm.

Mods, if you feel the need to remove this link feel free to do so. I'm just backing up my evidence:

<removed> no other forum posts/links

Poor puppy looks bony and sickly here... and Dianna didn't get ahold of him until August 29th. He had two whole extra weeks from this point to being completely emaciated.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
3,199
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
St. Louis, MO
Guess that explains why the timestamps were deleted. :(
I had been most suspicious of this....the pics all seem pretty high quality to me and I thought she mentions being a photographer? I know nothing of timestamps, how to delete them find them etc but I also only use my phone to take pics and it shows my lack of knowledge in the field. Her pics usually look really "finished" so I would assume a lot more knowledge.
 

Southpaw

orange iguanas.
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
7,788
Likes
1
Points
38
Age
32
Location
Minnesota
I guess no one saw my post yesterday.. or everyone just ignored it.

I still find it so strange that the breeder waited this long (14 months) to say anything about this.
I don't know why this info didn't come out earlier, but I guess my question is... why is this significant? I just don't see why it matters if this came out a year ago, 6 months ago, or today. The story is still the same. I don't think it's a stretch to say maybe she didn't want to make a public announcement. If Teal contacted her recently then maybe that is what brought this to the forefront again.

And I just don't see any evidence that goes against the breeder. Unless you want to say that emaciated puppy is a different puppy completely. But why would someone create this story, answer emails and phone calls about it, provide us with vet records, if the neglect never happened? Seems like a lot of hassle for something that would have no benefit to the breeder.

I would love to have it proved that it didn't go down this way. Obviously none of us want it to be true that the puppy was neglected. And I agree with the others that I don't think any neglect was intentional. But the entire OP is so sad, they way she talks about this puppy. Providing basic care to him was "hell" because he was clingy?? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Reading that post for the first time, without having any knowledge of the neglect accusations, broke my heart. It honestly doesn't surprise me at all, then, to see the emaciated pictures.
 

SkyRock

New Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
151
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Florida
Here is Dianna's e-mail to me. I edited out her phone number just because it seems weird to post it on Chaz, but if anybody wants it or her e-mail just PM me and I'll forward it to you.





Thank you for taking the time to share this information. Sadly it is exactly what I feared. How could someone abuse such a young pup is beyond my level of understanding. Now all the lies 'make sense', Teal was just trying to cover herself in case something like this happened. Well, the truth always comes out no matter how hard you try to hide it.
 

OwnedByBCs

Will Creep For Sheep
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
588
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Colorado
I guess I'd say its case closed... I see a plethora of proof on one side and nothing on the other. Thanks Jessie!
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
6,405
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Minnesota
Not sure if I can share the link to another forum on here publically, but she posted up this picture on August 15th at 5:01pm.

Mods, if you feel the need to remove this link feel free to do so. I'm just backing up my evidence:

<removed> no other forum posts/links

Poor puppy looks bony and sickly here... and Dianna didn't get ahold of him until August 29th. He had two whole extra weeks from this point to being completely emaciated.
Well dang. I don't really see another explanation for this. -_-
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
Romy, please pass on appreciation to Dianna for taking the time to send the records and tell us what happened from her end, and thanks to you for taking time to do it as well. I know how busy you are.

That little face is heartbreaking. I'm so relieved and glad she's got him in a home that can love him now.
 

Members online

Top