Dog #2

Let's play a game. This game is called, "Help Lyz find Dog #2". I had a similar thread up looking for breed suggestions, but now I'm looking actively for our next dog. I personally fail at this game. I fail terribly. :rofl1: And DH isn't much better. So we are looking for more directed help. Casting the net wider, so to speak.

Very few rules to the game. I have so many possible-fit breeds in mind that it's really come down to individual dog or breeder at this point. Possible breeds have been GSD, Malinois, Malamute, Chinook, GSP, Border Collie, Aussie, Beauceron, ACD, several different sighthounds, so on so forth.

• Intelligent, extremely active, personality, indifferent/polite with strangers. Medium to large. I'm leaning more towards hard dogs than soft dogs. Vocal is a plus.
• No die-hard aggressive tendencies(trainable and socialized are fine). No wire/scruff coats. No "omg everyone is a friend".
• Preferably (but none required) female, young(ish), able to be registered, and slightly more on the biddable/human-oriented side. I'd like to get into events, shows, competitions, but it will be family dog first. So some potential would be nice.
• Excluded breeds are Akitas, Dobes, Sibes, Chows, Rotties, Pits, etc.

Breeder or rescue/rehome. Breeders and rescues must be open to military and young families, because that is what we are. I'm in Montana now, but will be in Italy in March so the search as far as breeders go can go overseas. I really, really need something to do. It's illegal to for me to get a job in Italy. So, perfect time for a new dog, yes? I'll have PLENTY of time for playing, training, and all sorts of stuff for 3 years. Not to mention I've been looking for #2 for the last 7 months or so.

You play by suggesting breeder/rescue, discourage/encourage certain breed, breeder, rescue or even certain available dogs. Personal experiences also count.

Winner(s) gets bragging rights, cyber cookies, and (free) art of dogs done by moi.

So, let the games begin!
opcorn:

If sibes are excluded what will you do with your boy? (I know, OT)

Zander was grandfathered into our current military lease as a "husky"(loophole). And he's quite big enough to pass as a Malamute if there are issues with future military leases. It's likely he's part Malamute anyway, so there's no harm, foul, or problems as far as I can see.

Redbones would fit most of the criteria you mentioned. Not sure exactly how many things you'd have to do with one in Italy though, and they're a breed that really should be worked. Rhodesians fit quite a bit of those too, but some of them can be fairly dog aggressive.

I've sort of fished around with the idea of an RR, but I don't know much about them. Any info?

As long as I can self-teach and freestyle tracking and faux hunting, those breeds should be fine. We'll be in the northeast portion of Italy. Fairly rural and from what I hear very hunting/tracking dog breed friendly. Lots of spaniels, apparently.

Maybe a weim?

I'm thinking high energy hunting dog that will be a fair guard dogs.

Chessies are tough, hard to handle and can be overtly aggressive, but they make awesome hunting, high energy companions and good guard dogs if that is what you're seeking.

Hunting dogs is optional. I'm not specifically seeking out a hunting type dog, but if they fit the bill then it's obviously not a problem.

Some amount of protectiveness would be nice. As is, I'm home alone most of the time and Zander's no help in that department. But it's a fine line, because I don't want to actively give the impression of an aggressive/dominant dog, y'know?

Never really thought about Weims. They always seemed more insane-active then intelligent-active. I'll do more research on them. Chessies, too. I had a chessie foster once...he was a player, though. Local stray who went house to house when he got tired of wandering the streets. Then when he was done being a family pet, he'd take off again. I'll look into them, too.


Again, any specific breeders or rescues would be welcome at this point.

typos galore and accidentally deleted trying to fix images. nice.

I suck.

Cough ACD

Quick google search says they can be really aggressive, though? Is it workable with training, or is it a fairly potent trait in the breed?

ETA: Not the ACD, but the other Cattle Dog. Lol.

The Azores Cattle Dog, yes, it can be a highly aggressive and pushy dog. It depends on what you're looking for. Think of it as a tough, rough, don't mess with herding kind of dog from the ones I have met. I met one recently though that was very similar to american bulldog in temperament actually so who knows, it could be lines, the previous few I met were all related (owned by a Presa breeder) and they made me love the breed. Not sure I'll ever bother trying to own one but thought I'd throw it out there if you're intrigued by something out there and different to research. lol

I'm okay with a challenging, rough, or tough dog. Aggressive, though. Eh. I dealt with dog aggression when I lived with a roommate. It was so stressful, and I know I'd flip if I put Zander in that sort of situation, even with crate and rotate. I'm really not the type of person who does well with highly aggressive dogs. I don't mind where training, breeding and/or socialization really can make the difference, but true, hard-core extremely prone to be aggressive no matter what type of dogs give me the hebegeebees.

So dogs I'll need info an research on are ACDs and RRs. And Wiems, chessies, too. I don't have much personal experience with those dogs. And breeders/rescues.

Is it sad I have a chart-type thing going on in Word right now? Lol.

Okay..what kind of information do you need?

ACDs are prone to SSA...or really, picking out one random dog they don't like. I've of course heard of aggressive/shy/plenty of DA ACDs..but they can also be purchased as cheap farm dogs and I'm guessing lineage matters here. Romeo doesn't get along with one male in the house. But it's not out and out aggression, they can walk by each other but not really allowed to interact. ACDs have good focus, and drive, and trainability. They seem to have a good handle on 'friend or foe'. A friendly confident person is fine..if someone is acting weird, sulking around, acting nervous, they pick up on that. I feel like if someone popped out of the woods running at us, he would put on a show. He does kind of like everyone else though, especially if they have cookies.

As a youngster, he didn't alert, but he does now. Romeo was socialized to hell and back, he was brought to work (vet and kennels), pet stores, dog park up the street. He could do any sport I wanted to do, had I focused on it enough. His focus and confidence in himself is just really awesome.

I've met a handful of RRs, I've liked them all, though I can't picture them flying around agility obstacles. One was DA although not terrible. I don't like weims as a general rule...some people really do, I just think they are kind of weird. Haven't met enough Chessies to comment.

Are you sure adding a second dog possibly before an overseas move is a good idea? I know from our moves that were stateside, it got hectic and stressful enough.

Also, you'll be in Italy - maybe wanting to travel around Europe since you're there? That is a lot easier to do with one (or get someone to dogsit one rather than two dogs).

Not saying you shouldn't do it, just something to think about

Honestly, I'd recommend a Cardigan. They fit all of your specifications & they tend to really love playing with Huskies. They are firey and vocal, but generally not a bite liability at all.

Basically what you provided, just general personal experiences with the breed, what homes they work well in, what training they do well with, general health, any quirks, pros, or cons. The more info the better, but anything specifically in relation to my OP outlines is basically all I need.

I completely understand the concern.

We aren't the sort of people to just leave the dog at home while traveling, and I have heard that the majority of Europe is fairly dog friendly, which we are thrilled about. I wouldn't leave Zander with anyone regardless, so any type of traveling without him is out of the question, so one more doesn't make a huge difference in that regard.

Moving is stressful, and we already have one dog to deal with, but if it comes down to it we aren't opposed to moving with two if we do happen to find that perfect match before the move. Finance isn't an issue, and generally speaking neither is opportunity/settling. We've already decided that if things don't work out well before the move, I stay stateside until everything is worked out. And that decision would be with or without dogs. Space shouldn't be an issue either. While we have a sedan now, we do plan on selling it before moving, and then possibly looking into a slightly larger vehicle while overseas for long-distance traveling. I'm otherwise happy to walk/bike/public transit. Thus why this dog does not need to be a couch potato. Lol.

Additionally, most places seem to accept at least 2 dogs, which is our current limit anyway. And if they will accept a 70lb spitz/husky breed, they'll surely accept anything a similar size or under, as long as it isn't an "aggressive" individual or BSL'd.

You have no idea how badly I have been secretly coveting the idea of a corgi. I haven't even brought it up to DH yet. From what I see here on Chaz and from research online, they really seem to fit so much of what I want. PLUS I get to snuggles it. Which is pretty much impossible with Zander, even on a king sized bed without DH around.

But when it comes to health(I'm getting mixed info), breed politics, and foreign breeders, I wouldn't even know where to begin. Which is why I was hoping someone like you would come along and mention it.

If you're planning on adding a female, I wouldn't expect any trouble, since your current dog is a male.

ACD's do seem to fit the bill. My biggest tips would be socialize, socialize, socailize. I can still take my almost 3 yr old intact male to the dog park. He will not seek out a fight or try to start trouble. I think being intact stirs up the other dogs a bit, but we stay in our own area and play ball or I let him swim. I am very cautious, just because I don't want him developing any issues, but so far, so good. He went to doggy daycare as a puppy and was just out and about all the time. He's friendly with strangers if they ask to pet him, but otherwise ignores people.

My female is a different story altogether, but she's been a stress ball since she was 4 months old. She's fine out in public and can be handled by strangers (if needed) and will eventually warm up to other dogs, but mostly I try not to put her in those situations. She's not a dog park dog, then again, I never took her as a puppy, nor did I send her to daycare.

Both dogs have a slight protective streak, as did all my other ACD's. Again, socialization is key with this. When properly socialized they do develop a good sense of judgement and aren't going off at every little thing, but tend to hang back and only alert when something is really worrisome.

Mine will go all day long. Running in the morning, swimming and fetching, agility, running behind the 4-wheeler. They go camping with us, they rarely have to be leashed because I do lots and lots of training with them. Rumor gets leashed in public due to her reactivity, but at the deer lease or somewhere we don't run into a lot of traffic, she's fine. I let them offleash at agility trials to play frisbee and they are focused on the game. They fetch and bring the toy back and ignore the other sights/sounds/dogs/people.

If you instill a good work ethic into them as young puppies you will have a dog you can do anything with. Make them want to work for you and limit their opportunities to make thier own decisions. Mine love shaping games, they can think for themselves and are never wrong and they don't disengage because they want to be there. I'd say that since clicker training came around, my ability to get the best out of these dogs has multiplied 100 times.

Overall, the breed is pretty healthy. If you buy from a breeder you'll know the health testing of the parents and will be able to reasonably predict how your puppy will turn out. I encourage people to buy from a breeder who runs their dogs together as a group. I don't like it when dogs are kenneled away from each other, to me, it means the breeder lacks control, and may allow dog aggression. I understand sometimes two dogs just don't get along (I've had two bitches who fought), but for working purposes, they need to be fairly dog friendly, or at least be able to ignore other dogs in the vicinity. A good working dog wouldn't leave his work to engage in a fight because another male is standing outside the gate/fence/whatever.

My votes

Oh yes, Corgis are VERY snuggly! Without being super clingy. They're similar to Huskies in some ways for a herding dog. They definitely have an independent streak and can be very stubborn, but if you properly motivate them (with noms of course) they show how clever and biddable they can be.

As far as breeders, Cardis aren't nearly as affected by BYBs & mills as Pembrokes. There are still some iffy breeders out there, but in general the CWCCA list is a good place to start!

I've talked to Pawcific before & planned on getting a puppy from them. They're in Washington, and they have a lot of connections with other breeders and are SUPER nice about helping people find a Cardigan. They have a brindle female puppy available right now... http://www.pawcific.com/puppy pagecardis.htm

What I looked for in breeders before going to Pawcific was one that was active in conformation as well as herding & dog sports. You definitely want a dog that not only looks good, but has the working drive as well as a stable temperament. I also wanted a breeder who feeds raw and practices limited vaccinations... but that's up to you! Most important is that the breeder is happy to have you over to meet their dogs, talk to you for hours in e-mails/over the phone, and has an obvious passion and knowledge of their breed. Pawcific matched all of my wants! They no longer breed blue merles, which is the color I was set on. Usually you'll find that Cardi breeders either specialize in Blue Merles/Tris/Sables/Reds, or Brindles/Tris/Sables/Reds, as Brindles and Blues aren't supposed to be bred together. If you don't have a color preference that definitely opens you up to lots of breeders! http://www.shadowalk.com/ is a very well known, respected breeder in Montana. http://www.rhoswencardigancorgis.com/index.html is an amazing Cardi breeder in Idaho with lots of working titles on their dogs. I'd talk to all of them about their dogs, what you want in a dog, and if you're interested ask about adults that they or breeders they know might be placing.

Just curious, why don't you want a puppy? I mean, seriously... (this was going to be my puppy! she ended up being a brindle merle, as she had a brindle dad and a merle mom, and that disqualifies her in shows)