Labrador Breeder
- Thread starter Spirit2010
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Red, she looks overweight and out of shape in the recent photos. It's not a slam on the dog, it's an observation about her physical condition, which doesn't look great. Not unhealthy, either, though, if I'm being fair.. just chubby.
And Erica didn't 'steal' the pictures.... stealing would be uploading them to her photobucket account and posting. Right click... they're the ones from the website.. People do that all the time. I wasn't aware that it's considered theft if the image has just been posted elsewhere, when it's still hosted on the original site.
And Erica didn't 'steal' the pictures.... stealing would be uploading them to her photobucket account and posting. Right click... they're the ones from the website.. People do that all the time. I wasn't aware that it's considered theft if the image has just been posted elsewhere, when it's still hosted on the original site.
H
These are good looking Labs. They are "English" looking but a little on the short side for my taste. They don't look overweight, just thicker all around like most typical show Labs. They are all OFA, Optigen, Cardiac tested...all, except Dock, have really nice looking pedigrees (at least the boys do - I didn't look at all the girls). Some of their boys are Ch themselves. They retrieve and seem to, in pictures, handle the water *with their size* very well.
A friend of mine has a field Lab and a show Lab. They've been bred together and produced wonderful proven field retrievers as well as show prospects. Both have Hall of Famers, Dual Champions, conformation and field/hunters behind them as well as good/excellent & good/normal hips (parents have been tested recently and are both Good) behind them. Their male looks very much like the BlackRock Labs but with slightly longer legs and a slightly thinner tail. Still "otter" just not huge. He's being entered in shows as we speak.
Anyways, their dogs look perfectly fine. All pups sold on limited registration - good. Even though they don't intend for them to be hunted with I imagine most are. Just not shown or bred due to LR. I didn't look at their health guarantee so I can't comment on that.
My Lab friend still has 2 pups from their last litter of 6. One to a hunting home, one to future frisbee/agility home, and two to pet homes. 1 male and 1 female left. Male is quieter, potty trained, very sweet, listens/learns quickly, heels, walks on a leash great, loves water, looks like potential show prospect.
Female is louder, curious, fearless, sweet, listens/learns quickly, walks on a leash, loves retrieving & water, has wonderful traits for field/retrieving.
Anyways....I'd personally like the Black Rock Labs due to the testing that is done, the pedigree & some ch parentage. Also depending on health guarantee.
A friend of mine has a field Lab and a show Lab. They've been bred together and produced wonderful proven field retrievers as well as show prospects. Both have Hall of Famers, Dual Champions, conformation and field/hunters behind them as well as good/excellent & good/normal hips (parents have been tested recently and are both Good) behind them. Their male looks very much like the BlackRock Labs but with slightly longer legs and a slightly thinner tail. Still "otter" just not huge. He's being entered in shows as we speak.
Anyways, their dogs look perfectly fine. All pups sold on limited registration - good. Even though they don't intend for them to be hunted with I imagine most are. Just not shown or bred due to LR. I didn't look at their health guarantee so I can't comment on that.
My Lab friend still has 2 pups from their last litter of 6. One to a hunting home, one to future frisbee/agility home, and two to pet homes. 1 male and 1 female left. Male is quieter, potty trained, very sweet, listens/learns quickly, heels, walks on a leash great, loves water, looks like potential show prospect.
Female is louder, curious, fearless, sweet, listens/learns quickly, walks on a leash, loves retrieving & water, has wonderful traits for field/retrieving.
Anyways....I'd personally like the Black Rock Labs due to the testing that is done, the pedigree & some ch parentage. Also depending on health guarantee.
Seriously... me posting that picture has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the fact that the dog has been bred, or the condition of her nipples, or ANYTHINGGG like that. Please don't accuse me of making fun of that dog - I don't make fun of dogs. I might make fun of their breeders, their owners, etc, but not the dogs themselves. And where did I denigrate or make fun of that dog? I stated that she does not appear to be in healthy condition - which, to me, is the condition that the dog would be working in. I have seen plenty of bitches who have just whelped litters. I saw one on Saturday, in fact, and you could still see her waist, you could still see her tuck-up.
If posting pictures from a breeders website of a dog that they are breeding, that they consider an ideal, and expressing MY OPINION, about the condition of that dog and the obvious trend toward stout, thick Labs that the breeders is going for, warrants being sued... well, many of us are guilty of that, then. What about the thread last week about huge, over-sized Pit Bulls, and all of the pictures posted there and critiqued? Spirit asked for our opinions and advice, and in my opinion, any dog being bred should be fully able to perform the work that the breed was intended for. And, in my opinion, the breeder in question is not breeding for dogs that exemplify the original purpose of Labs, at all. I obviously upset some people by expressing my opinion, and I apologize for that, but I don't apologize for how I feel.
If posting pictures from a breeders website of a dog that they are breeding, that they consider an ideal, and expressing MY OPINION, about the condition of that dog and the obvious trend toward stout, thick Labs that the breeders is going for, warrants being sued... well, many of us are guilty of that, then. What about the thread last week about huge, over-sized Pit Bulls, and all of the pictures posted there and critiqued? Spirit asked for our opinions and advice, and in my opinion, any dog being bred should be fully able to perform the work that the breed was intended for. And, in my opinion, the breeder in question is not breeding for dogs that exemplify the original purpose of Labs, at all. I obviously upset some people by expressing my opinion, and I apologize for that, but I don't apologize for how I feel.
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You can't show a field lab in AKC.
Well 'ihartgonzo', I respect your opinion, but can't agree with you completely. You see, while I DO agree that AKC conformation labradors would NEVER be able to 'work' in the field all day or maybe not even for a couple of hours. I also know there isn't ONE field lab that would ever get considered for even a class win in an AKC conformation show ring. It is truly the judges' fault, and you CAN'T blame the breeders for breeding excellent companion dogs that look nice and move beautifully in the show ring that will win as Belmont has. You just have to decide which avenue you want to travel when it comes to labradors, the show dog or the field trial dog. It's true, they are absolutely two different animals, and what we should all be doing (judges included) is striving for a happy medium of Labradors that CAN work/hunt, move effortlessly, are well balanced with a level top line, have ample coat and a true otter tail, can live comfortably inside your home, don't destroy crates while trying to escape them and can be taken both to the field and/or the show ring.
Personally, I like dogs that will settle down and aren't exploding with the high energy levels of most field dogs. I'll say it once again, there must for the sake of the labrador, be a compromise found by breeders on all levels. I think if we all look back at what type of labradors were origionally brought to the states, we'd find one that we all can love and appreciate. Take Eng & Am. CH Banchory Trump of Wingan, for instance. This dog was obviously highly regarded as he won in the show ring but could work well in the field. While I would prefer a more pleasing head and a little thicker thigh, I think this dog is 'right on' though he would NEVER get a second look in today's show ring.
BTW, check out the 'pick girl' from our most recent litter. www.brillhilllabs.com/liddy.html Maybe you'll like her, maybe you won't, but I love her and also know she would NOT do well in the AKC show ring....
I think before there is criticism directed at a specific dog or breeder, (Dale is my friend) consideration of the breed as a whole should be made. If you want to do well in the show ring, you should take ONE type of labrador, while if you want to exceed in the field, you must bring ANOTHER. It's actually quite sad that two dogs that look completely different could both be of the same breed. I can't think of another breed that's like that at all...can you?
Sincerely, TerrapinBrad of www.brillhilllabs.com
Well 'ihartgonzo', I respect your opinion, but can't agree with you completely. You see, while I DO agree that AKC conformation labradors would NEVER be able to 'work' in the field all day or maybe not even for a couple of hours. I also know there isn't ONE field lab that would ever get considered for even a class win in an AKC conformation show ring. It is truly the judges' fault, and you CAN'T blame the breeders for breeding excellent companion dogs that look nice and move beautifully in the show ring that will win as Belmont has. You just have to decide which avenue you want to travel when it comes to labradors, the show dog or the field trial dog. It's true, they are absolutely two different animals, and what we should all be doing (judges included) is striving for a happy medium of Labradors that CAN work/hunt, move effortlessly, are well balanced with a level top line, have ample coat and a true otter tail, can live comfortably inside your home, don't destroy crates while trying to escape them and can be taken both to the field and/or the show ring.
Personally, I like dogs that will settle down and aren't exploding with the high energy levels of most field dogs. I'll say it once again, there must for the sake of the labrador, be a compromise found by breeders on all levels. I think if we all look back at what type of labradors were origionally brought to the states, we'd find one that we all can love and appreciate. Take Eng & Am. CH Banchory Trump of Wingan, for instance. This dog was obviously highly regarded as he won in the show ring but could work well in the field. While I would prefer a more pleasing head and a little thicker thigh, I think this dog is 'right on' though he would NEVER get a second look in today's show ring.
BTW, check out the 'pick girl' from our most recent litter. www.brillhilllabs.com/liddy.html Maybe you'll like her, maybe you won't, but I love her and also know she would NOT do well in the AKC show ring....
I think before there is criticism directed at a specific dog or breeder, (Dale is my friend) consideration of the breed as a whole should be made. If you want to do well in the show ring, you should take ONE type of labrador, while if you want to exceed in the field, you must bring ANOTHER. It's actually quite sad that two dogs that look completely different could both be of the same breed. I can't think of another breed that's like that at all...can you?
Sincerely, TerrapinBrad of www.brillhilllabs.com
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To me... those labs do look somewhat overweight. I don't like to see ANY dog over weight, regardless of breed. If I was a breeder and a shower, I would want my dogs to be in tip top condition, but thats just me. Seeing overweight studs and bitches on a breeders web site tells me that they just don't care, and its a big turn off.
Not saying that its the case here, but there is a fad of breeding labs that have rottweiler bodies and heads. Right across the street from me there is a pure bred black lab who is big and blocky... with a docked tail. lol.
As far as "stealing" the pics from the website. A LOT of us here at chaz has taken photos and posted them here before. I guess were all gonna get sued from something I see as frivolous. But seriously, I dont see the big deal when all you have to do is click on the link and... viola there are the pics for you to see in all their glory. People are entitled to their opinions as far as critiquing goes. I would expect people to critique my dogs if I were a breeder too...
I am just speaking my mind here.
Not saying that its the case here, but there is a fad of breeding labs that have rottweiler bodies and heads. Right across the street from me there is a pure bred black lab who is big and blocky... with a docked tail. lol.
As far as "stealing" the pics from the website. A LOT of us here at chaz has taken photos and posted them here before. I guess were all gonna get sued from something I see as frivolous. But seriously, I dont see the big deal when all you have to do is click on the link and... viola there are the pics for you to see in all their glory. People are entitled to their opinions as far as critiquing goes. I would expect people to critique my dogs if I were a breeder too...
I am just speaking my mind here.
Thanks for your input, TerrapinBrad.
I definitely sympathize with you, and I understand that many breeds end up being split between working and show breeders... it just happens. Especially in such a popular breed. One of my favorite breeds, Border Collies, are insanely split as well. Border Collie people face the same dilemma; working dogs don't really stand a chance in the show ring. I know that sides have to be taken, in these cases, and I do usually tend to side with working breeders. I feel that form does follow function, but working ability should be first and foremost (besides temperament and health), IMHO.
I totally agree with you, that a happy medium should be the goal of every breeder. And I'm not saying the breeder in question is a bad person, or a bad breeder, because of the type of Labs that they choose to produce. Their health checks, and showing, and contracts, and all of that is great. I just don't agree with the show Lab trend of dogs who are overly stout. Plenty of people here love his dogs, I think they're adorable, but I'm not a fan of the type. We all have opinions, and we all choose sides, to some extent. I'm definitely NOT a Lab expert, though... so... my opinion may not mean much, it's just how I feel.
I think Liddy is a beautiful Labby girl. I really love her head, it's very classic, and what I think of when I think of Labs. And she looks like she's in awesome shape! She reminds me a LOT of my favorite Lab in the world. He's my friend (Sarah's) dog, Buck. He's from working parents, and I'm pretty sure he has some show lines, as well. (Hopefully she won't sue me for posting theeese...)
Buck & his sister. He's in yellow.
I definitely sympathize with you, and I understand that many breeds end up being split between working and show breeders... it just happens. Especially in such a popular breed. One of my favorite breeds, Border Collies, are insanely split as well. Border Collie people face the same dilemma; working dogs don't really stand a chance in the show ring. I know that sides have to be taken, in these cases, and I do usually tend to side with working breeders. I feel that form does follow function, but working ability should be first and foremost (besides temperament and health), IMHO.
I totally agree with you, that a happy medium should be the goal of every breeder. And I'm not saying the breeder in question is a bad person, or a bad breeder, because of the type of Labs that they choose to produce. Their health checks, and showing, and contracts, and all of that is great. I just don't agree with the show Lab trend of dogs who are overly stout. Plenty of people here love his dogs, I think they're adorable, but I'm not a fan of the type. We all have opinions, and we all choose sides, to some extent. I'm definitely NOT a Lab expert, though... so... my opinion may not mean much, it's just how I feel.
I think Liddy is a beautiful Labby girl. I really love her head, it's very classic, and what I think of when I think of Labs. And she looks like she's in awesome shape! She reminds me a LOT of my favorite Lab in the world. He's my friend (Sarah's) dog, Buck. He's from working parents, and I'm pretty sure he has some show lines, as well. (Hopefully she won't sue me for posting theeese...)
Buck & his sister. He's in yellow.
That was really a stupid thing to say. How can you possibly blame the judges? It is the BREEDER'S responsibility to be breeding correct and sound dogs. When the judge is presented with ALL incorrect dogs, he/she isn't going to withhold ribbons weekend after weekend.
A friend of mine wrote an excellent piece on the topic... (for anyone who wants to read the whole article... it's called "Our Purpose" by Ariel Woodruff)
"Is conformation an evaluation of breeding stock? Yes-but there is a catch- participation in conformation does not relieve the breeder of the responsibility for making informed, intelligent decisions. The breeder must decide which judges' opinions she values; the breeder must decide whether a championship was truly earned by the dog, or whether it was earned by handlers and politics."
There is no conceivable way a breeder and exhibitor can blame judges. It is left up to YOU to maintain the breed you chose to work with. NOT the judges you show to.
A friend of mine wrote an excellent piece on the topic... (for anyone who wants to read the whole article... it's called "Our Purpose" by Ariel Woodruff)
"Is conformation an evaluation of breeding stock? Yes-but there is a catch- participation in conformation does not relieve the breeder of the responsibility for making informed, intelligent decisions. The breeder must decide which judges' opinions she values; the breeder must decide whether a championship was truly earned by the dog, or whether it was earned by handlers and politics."
There is no conceivable way a breeder and exhibitor can blame judges. It is left up to YOU to maintain the breed you chose to work with. NOT the judges you show to.
I would like to know who else you are planning to bash and hurt? Regardless of your opinion, which everyone has, not everyone wants to hear it! This breeder is very reputable and loves each of his animals. If he has children you might as well attack them too!
I'm new to this forum and feel very hurt by your comments of this dog and breeder as I own one of these beautiful dogs. Also...did you ask permission to take pics from his web site?
I have had both Field and English bred labs and both are very nice.
I'm not being confrontational...but is that a white chest on your lab?
I'm new to this forum and feel very hurt by your comments of this dog and breeder as I own one of these beautiful dogs. Also...did you ask permission to take pics from his web site?
I have had both Field and English bred labs and both are very nice.
I'm not being confrontational...but is that a white chest on your lab?
You won't find me anywhere in the thread talking about your dog (the only post I've made is the one you replied to).
I was simply stating that it is ludicrious to blame judges. You are the breeder, it is your responsibility to breed sound, correct dogs. Don't try to blame the demise of a breed on judges.
I was simply stating that it is ludicrious to blame judges. You are the breeder, it is your responsibility to breed sound, correct dogs. Don't try to blame the demise of a breed on judges.
