NILIF and its amusing effects

In keeping with the spirit of making Tosca do something for everything she gets, I have taken it seriously. I put her food down she sits and Leaves It till I say ok. I have a treat for her, she has to sit or go down or whatever I ask. She understands this. In fact she understands it so well that I have begun to laugh hysterically. Here's what she does:

I have a treat for her. She knows she is going to have to do something for it. So what does she do? She sees the cookie and she goes thru her own paces! Tosca sticks her paw up real fast, puts it down, sits, and then goes down! She works like the devil for that treat and I haven't even asked her to do anything yet. Um, I'm not sure that is what is supposed to happen, right? So how do I fix this newest mess I made?

Um......... throw her a curve ball and eat the cookie yourself........hahahahaha

You should get a video of this little stunt!

ACooper, I WOULD buy a mini cam and take videos if I didn't already know that I was photographically impaired. I mean this is a pic I took of Tosca this week. Note the missing eyeballs?

My ACD also does this! It is the funniest thing to see--he used to go through everything he knows in fast forward mode! In my opinion, the only way to stop it (as amusing as it is!) is to only treat for a very specific behavior and response--ignore everything else so Tosca learns that offering up random responses gets her no where. It took awhile for me to undo my unintentionally rewarding Blue's "performance" but I think we are back on track. Zippy will also offer a diiferent behavior if he hasn't figured out what I'm asking for yet---I thinks its all part of the learning process. Tosca is so gorgeous by the way!

Thank you for saying that KMH1. If I were a decent photographer it would help. She really is so pretty and I am a useless camera person! I did ruin her ears though. I got her with her ears taped and it was so hot out she was sweaty and irritated so I stopped the process. Now she has one ear up and one ear down. Ah well, I never intended to show her and I kind of pretend it's the "best of both worlds". lol.

Yes! Fast forward is the way to describe what she does! It's like a TV cartoon! Thanks for the input. Should I stop doing NILIF entirely for now? Or should I just let her go thru her paces, ignore it and then give her a command when she stops? I will have all I can do not to laugh. It's totally hysterical. She so wants to please but I do think this little idea she has is not part of what I want from her and have to let her know that.

Another sign of "shared" blood between the collies!!!

Colt did this too - of course, now he is at an "ignoring me altogether" stage but that is my problem for my thread not yours.....

I only give him the treat for the specific command. If he does other things, (like a down or something) I entice him back up until he does what I am saying (I learned this in puppy class). This does work, but lately he just stares at me defiantly when I give him a command so I say "too bad" and I walk away. Whether or not he comes after me depends on how bad he wants a treat. Sometimes I swear he thinks "to hell with you" and just walks away!!!! Someone told me this is dog "adolesence" - I think he is just modeling my kids.....

Tosca is a regal queen. What a magnificent coat!!

She IS gorgeous! What a sweety. My vet taught Lyric that he just has to shake the minute he comes in the room, no cue, no nothing and he'll get a cookie...actually lots of cookies.

What you do, is don't hold the cookie. Set it out on the counter ahead of time for later so it's not as noticable. Eh-hem....like they can't smell. Anyhow, it's not in your hand. You give the cue to her to sit or whatever trick you want. Do it out of the blue, when she's not expecting it and then give her a cookie. If she offers behavior which you don't want unless they're on cue, don't reward her or pay any attention to her. Only reward for cued behaviors. She'll straighten up and fly right. LOL. Personally, if it's not too obnoxious or pushy, I don't mind a little slop. It is kind of endearing, isn't it.

Also, once a behavior is well learned and reliable, you do not have to treat every time. It's actually strengthening to vary the number of sits (for instance) before she gets a treat.

The NILIF is good for teaching manners and good when a dog has some behavior problems. If your dog is coming along nicely and has no major behavior problems, it is not necessary to carry NILIF to the extreme. I think too much of that could be a little frustrating to a dog who is perfectly well adjusted. Manners are good, yes. So, I too ask my dogs to sit first with things they're pushy about. My motto with my dogs is STILAF. (some things in life are free.) LOL.

I loved these posts (and Toscas picture!) and that's a herding breed for you!! Always trying to beat you to the punch. This is a common mistake owners make, teaching the same sequence of commands that a dog then starts to anticipate. I.e. a "sit' command always coming before the "down". I am guessing this is what you've been doing, the same sequence of commands?? If so, change it up and Tosca will stop "anticipating". Example, this happens a lot on an off leash sit, then recall. Dogs' know that "come" command is normally given when you go the distance and start timing that sit stay. A lot of them will stand, in anticipation, if not just run to you after a timed 3 minutes or so. So, you then return to your dog and go back to a release from heel position as often as you practice a recall and don't practice them back to back, to stop that behavior. Same as going into a sit then dropping to a down as soon as the cookies come out. Doberluvs' right, hide the cookie, quickly place dog in a down, then do a recall or two before food reward is reintroduced. Do a down first and then up to a sit before cookie reward and only reward for the correct command, in the correct order. You'll get Toscas attention once she realizes she is not conducting the training session, you are. Best to nip that in the bud now, if you intend to show/compete with her later on. (I agree with Doberluvs' though. It is endearing to see them work that hard to get the end result/reward. Wish my kids had had that concept when growing up!! Lol)

Well, I'll add mine to the list of dogs/collies who do this. I've always thought it was hysterical. I think it's great - the dog is having fun, doing his tricks, and trying to train you! I do what the previous poster said, just vary the order in which you ask Tosca to do the tricks. I don't give the treat until he does what I want. But there is no discipline or negativity because he's just having fun. Leaving the cookie on a table is a great idea. If you are out in public you can put it in a pocket. Stopping the game is a good way to move on if he's being a little stubborn.

Otch and Kidsanddogs....Your detail is so good. I really left a lot of things out. Yes, you have to mix things up or they learn how to make us give them a treat. We learn by reinforcement too! LOL.

I have to laugh because this new vet I have is enthralled with Lyric when he shakes hands. I don't know why that is. It's as if he never saw a dog shake hands before. Lyric kind of cocks his head, stretches up tall, reaches his paw up very high and fast... and about 2 seconds after the vet enters the exam room. That's because the vet made such a fuss over him the last couple of visits which were fairly close together. He gave him yummy treats and would just barely begin to reach his hand out toward Lyric and couldn't vocalize the word, "shake" fast enough. Lyric would raise his paw up again and again and the vet just kept giving him treats. Then he called his girl in (this is a repeat of the previous visit) and said, "watch this," never taking his eyes off of Lyric. Again, the paw shake and treat. It's a riot. I love this vet!!!!! I wish he were all mine! LOL.

Anyhow, needless to say, Lyric has trained my vet. I would like to know Lyric's secret. :lol-sign:

Wow everybody, thanks for the worthy advice. I didn't want her to do this forever, but to tell you the truth it almost got so NILIF was some kind of normal course for both of us. She really is well behaved and I think it just went too far for both of us. She does this great one where I taught her to go around behind me and then heel on my left and sit, so she even adds that to the mix when I am going to give her a treat. I think you competition folks call that a "finish"? I saw my trainer do it with some dogs that were more advanced than she and then we just kind of practiced it. Her recall is really impeccable, so overall I am overtraining her maybe. I had NO idea it was a herding dog thing that's common, but obviously after reading these posts, this is so. Too funny! I really need to get some sheep for this dog or something. There is no end to how much she wants to do things...sometimes ad nauseum.

I never intended to show her or compete with her, but as time goes on maybe I should get her into something. To be honest I told her breeder I would consider these things but now that we are good friends and she is so happy with how Tosca is turning out, I told her I lied. LOL. I wanted to move up on that list! Fortunately, she forgives me. Besides, I ruined her ears. But that doesn't preclude obedience competition, and I think I may head that way with her, mostly for HER. She wants the job. I plan to do her CGC in spring and our trainer said she's going to have no problem, so my other thought was going all the way to therapy dog so that she can work hospitals, kids' wards, etc. I know now I can't just let Tosca be a housepet, she craves more. So I will be pounding you guys for more help. Frankly she is better at training than I am. If she weren't so "into" it I am sure she wouldn't be doing as well as she is. Bumhouse, I know about "stubborn" and that too is a Collie trait. Gratefully it's not too often. lol.

I really want to thank you guys for the wonderful things you said about Tosca. She really IS beautiful. But most of all, she really is beautiful inside. She is the best damned thing that has happened to this house in years. I am so proud of her wherever we go, not only because of how people are wowed to look at her, but because her personality is even better than her looks. I had a lot of trepidation about having a dog and whether I was up to raising one right. I was so stupid about training, but there are people right here in this thread who have helped me, not only by reading your words but in PMs as well. And for that I am grateful. To be honest, I am so happy with Tosca that I am thinking a bit about a friend for her this year--perhaps a shelter dog. I have the time and the room and the heart for it now that I see how well Tosca and I are working together.

Yup this is quite common when people only use a few commands for NILIF. The dog predicts and goes into "automatic mode". Just make sure that ou dont reward the automatic behaviour and make sure she does something that YOU commanded

Thought you folks might be interested in seeing Tosca's take on NILIF
http://mypuppytosca.blogspot.com/2007/02/lift-that-hoe-tow-that-barge.html

:lol-sign: :hail: OMG!!! ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was too funny and oh, so clever! Poor Tosca. She has a rough life.

I'm tellin' you, YOU must've been a dog in a previous life to write like that from her perspective!!

We always laugh when we read your blog - no pressure but now we are TOSCA'S BLOG ADDICTS and we need you to write more often

Yes..........I was thinking just how much she has to go through living with that woman too!!

You may stop reading now TM, anything further is for Tosca alone.

Note to Tosca: Is the big meanie gone?.......... Make sure she isn't standing behind you, Call me if you need to relocate!

The little beeeatch is number 33 of the top 200 pet blogs and she's still complaining because there are some cats ahead of her! Don't forget to rate her. She will get you if you don't!

In case you haven't noticed, I love to write that kind of stuff. I just become a dog in my head when I do it and, honestly, sometimes thinking like her makes me laugh so hard I cry. I have met so many fantastic pet bloggers in network that Tosca is on card and gift lists. I myself barely get noticed. Hahahaha.

I KNOW there are some good writers on Chaz. If any of you enjoy doing this kind of thing, I highly recommend it as it becomes more and more fun as you get picked up by others.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. That's the whole idea.

Is my Chloe and Tosca related?
I mean I know they are both Tri-colored Collies but c'mon, Chloe has done this too. lol. Doesn't matter what the food is, if she knows it was going to be hers she'd launch into doing everything she knows to get it then cock her head to the side as if to say, "is that good enough?". She knows "wait", so when I noticed her doing this I began having her "wait". Meaning that when she hears the treat jar and she's in the room I have her "wait" wherever she is until I tell her what to do. If she enters the room I tell her "wait" and she just stands there until she's directed to "do" something for the treat.

Bailey just waits to be told what to do but he's not that food motivated especially dog treats. But my RB Collie was really amazing (to me anyway).
You could give him a string of commands all at once like down, stand, sit, turn (around), heel and back to sit and he would do all of the commands in the order you gave them and would not begin the string of commands until you finished giving them. You could give any of the commands (and more than in the list above) in any order, mix them up, and he would complete them in the order given.

Herschel does this, too. Sometimes he just fixates on us (he knows "watch me" very well), but other times he'll do everything. Roll over, stand, paw/other paw, high five, etc. etc. etc. etc.

However, when we were leaving our doggie daycare a month or two ago, a woman walked in to buy some treats. She goes to the bulk biscuits and starts scooping them up and pouring them into a bag.

Herschel runs over to her, sits perfectly at her feet, and gives her the best "puppy eyes" that he could muster. He didn't end up getting the treat, but it was one of the cutest things I've ever seen.

I don't think there's much of a problem with that as long as when you ASK her to do a certain trick, she stops running through all her repertoire and does what you ask.