I have failed again

Ok, I have done many good things with new doggie, she's now 8 months old, and very livable(Most of the time:yikes: )
But again,as in training old dog I have failed in a very important trick that most of you seem to have little problem with,leash walking!
I failed with 10 year old dog, and Tink is also the worlds WORST puller, she's an 8 pound sled dog! I spent 5 months (7 weeks- 7 months) trying to do everything in the positive clicker training books, EVERYTHING. I bought a gentle leader harness a while back,which worked ok, till she learned how to pull sideways and keep going- and it had a terrible flaw, it cut deeply into her underarm,which i feel really bad about. So much for that-
So last week, when i was walking the 2 pulling-est dogs in the world, i was inspired,and tied their 2 leashes together, big dogs was shorter, Tinks was about a foot longer, voila! No more sore arm for me, they pulled on each other sideways,and all the tension was on their own necks- I could easily control our direction with big dog on the shorter lead, and Tink had no choice but to follow....it was kind of funny....
(big dog isn't that big,about 35 pounds)
...But...this doesn't solve the pulling- anyone else have a hard time with this? I am so tired of stopping every step of the walk,turning in right circles, walking backwards,etc. Treats mean nothing except"wow, that was good" before takeoff.....
The click method isn't getting across, am I doomed to forever have a pulling Tink?

So, you got tired of stopping. And then you gave in and walked, giving your sled dog all the reinforcement she needed to find out that....yes, pulling and pulling persistantly, never giving up, never stopping to try to pull WORKS. You need to be consistant and stop dead. Take one step and if she goes to the end of the leash, stop. If she takes two steps without getting to the end of the leash, treat with a HIGH value treat. Take her when she's a little hungry and use hot dog pieces or fresh meat. (tiny) Practice in your yard where there is little distraction. Skip the walks for a while out in public where there are too many interesting things for her to sniff and see. Reinforce every step or two that she makes which is good by treating her, praising her and walking forward. The more reinforcement for nice steps the better, so do it often as long as she walks without tension in the leash. Instantly, when she gets to the end of the leash BEFORE there is tension in it, stop. You will have to keep it up until you go crazy because now she has been reinforced for her pulling by getting to go forward. She's going to try and try and try for a long time before she gives up on account of it giving her NOTHING....no treat, no praise, no privelege of walking forward. Practice at home for a week 4 times a day for as long as she can stand it without getting too frustrated. Inbetween, to break things up, work on her sit/stays, down/stays, come etc.

Once she starts showing a little improvement and can take a few nice steps, begin stopping and asking for a sit. Fade out the cue for sit and encourage her to sit automatically when you stop. Then you can, when walking stop frequently and have her sit.

Before you start anything, practice at home the "watch me" command. You need to get her attention on you and you need to make it worth her while to watch you. Make it fun, a game. Try practicing when she's a little hungry, before meal time and use some unusual treat that's super yummy if you need to. Or, if she's more into squeeky toys, use that.

My Doberman was my worst puller of any dog I ever had. It took time, but I stuck to my guns....."You pull one single step, and we don't move." It took a long time to get one block, but he finally got it. I was very watchful that when he took a step or two nicely, before he screwed up, to reinforce that. You just have to persist and be consistant. Don't let it slide even once from now on. One time where it works for her, and she's right back not only where she started but in a worse place.....a place where she learns that if she keeps trying for a very, very long time, she'll finally get a pay off. (your giving up and letting her have her way)

Another thing I found helpful was (no leash...this is a game) to get the dog really paying attention, looking up at me and then swooping my right arm from in front of his face (with a treat in my hand) away from him as I pivoted 180 degrees the other way. I swooped and made a very exaggerated dip with my body.....like a game...made it be a silly, fun game to follow my hand around as a target for him to follow. He enjoyed this game and would race around to keep up with me. It just helps to get the dog engaged and interested in where you're going and he wants to join in. Be sure to give a treat when the dog comes around with you, everytime for now. If she can catch treats, toss her one. So, I'd zig zag around my lawn, sometimes going straight for a little bit, then abruptly turning, swooping with my arm, bending, scooting around the other way and very thankful I didn't have any neighbors who could watch me. LOL.opcorn:

Doberluv, you are exactly right, I have given up, and it's reinforced all her naughty pulling-I just figured "if this little %$$# dog hasn't learned in all these months, I don't think she ever will,boy my arm HURTS!"
I think a big part of why I haven't been able to stick with it is I usually have kids or other people with me when we walk,and me stopping constantly makes everyone crazy- but I am going to work on the watch me trick,and her paying attention when we walk....

I know how you feel. When I'd visit my 26 yr. old daughter in Seattle, we'd walk and I had to do that stopping thing. She was trying to be patient, but she'd say, "Oh...come'n Mom, just walk." Well, 95 LBS of solid muscle pulling little old me down the road just wasn't fun so I told her...."sorry, I'll take you for a walk without Lyric later." LOL. It took him much longer than 8 months of age to walk right where there were a lot of distractions. When we'd do a formal heel, that was just great. He was in the "training mode." But ask him to just walk along in a relaxed, casual way????? Heck no. So, hang in there. Try to walk without other people or explain that they can go up ahead and you'll catch up. Maybe even a little running would help tire her out.

She's just eager like any dog to get going and see the big exciting world. And she hasn't had enough reinforcement yet to make her walk right so she CAN see the big world. If she only knew what she was missing. LOL. But they don't logically figure it all out in their heads. It's just tons of reinforcement for "good" behavior that makes them repeat that behavior. And no payoff for lousy pulling. LOL.