Border Collie, Brittany, Red Heeler. whats the best for a new puppy owner

a mix of show/field springer would probably fit the bill. The show side tends to mellow out the active side of the field springer. They average 45-50 lbs, I'd say they are on the large side of medium in size over all. They are always up for a game of fetch, ball, frisbee, or a romp in the water or park. They are obedient and listen well if taught young, good natured, yet love to be with you and snuggle when you need them to. I find them a wonderful companion. I do have to caution as was mentioned already, make absolutely certain that you get one from a reputable breeder, ask about epilepsy, if there has ever been rage in the lines, or an eye issue called PRA. You also want to see the pedigree and make certain there is NO inbreeding in the lineage. For some reason springers, in my experience anyhow, do not fair well with temperament or health when there is any form of inbreeding in them. They do ok with a bit of linebreeding, but not inbreeding. Also I have found the males to be much more even tempered than the females and it doesn't seem to matter if the females are spayed or not. Most tend to get snippy with other dogs as they get older. The males tend to stay more even keyed their whole lives.
They need a firm hand for training but not a harsh hand. They respond best to praise as they love to please. Its' very easy to break a springers spirit if you are too hard with the training methods.

Brittany's, again in my experience, are very high strung, not quite as eager to please and many many of them have allergy issues. Although they are smaller than the springers are. The show brits are a bit more mellow, but if you get field in them watch out!

First of all, welcome to Chaz. I'll try to help you here . None of those breeds would fit your family at all, as it sounds.

But before you decide on a breed or anything..
why not take a couple drives to the local shelters around you and see if you can find a dog that you like, is of acceptable size for your family, and has desirable tempermant traits for your family. There are a lot of mixed breeds or dogs that don't exactly fit their breed tempermant standard at shelters. I'd strongly suggest you visit a few! You can enter your zip code and such at www.petfinder.com and see shelters and dogs for adoption nearest to you.

To be breed specific, I would say a Lab mix or a Golden Retriever mix.
I almost don't want to suggest a Lab, because they are very intense on toys, and hyperactive. My youngin Labs are anyway, all three of them. They can be quite the trouble makers as well [I suppose any dog can, but I've never had a trouble-making dog like my good ol' Labs]. Goldens, though, do not seem to be so intense, set on and demanding. A lot of Goldens and Golden mixes can be on the medium side.

A Springer may be a good choice, as mentioned in the post above. They don't get too big.

But Border Collie's are more likely not to want to romp with you guys. And in my experience they don't play. They fetch the ball, bring it back, crouch down and get intense, and wait for the throw again. He'd probably be more interesting in herding you rather than playing with you. There ARE exceptions, though. Shelter dogs are usually quite different from the bred-for-what-they-were-bred-for dogs. We had Merle for a little while; a short-haired black and white Border collie who was wonderful. She loved playing on the trampolein, running, romping, etc. But your best bet of getting one of these BCs is from the pound.

Brittany's, I would say, is a no. They are very high strung and set on their own decisions, stubborn, I'd say. Two friends of mine had Brittanys. One had a Brit named Jackson. He wanted what he wanted and that was that. Stubborn dogs and they take a bit of time to train. They absolutly thrive on positive reinforcement and praise, which may be tough with kids that aren't old enough to understand that they do NOT react well to punishment.They are on the smaller side, but never run out of energy in that little body. They're going, constantly. My other friend had one named Annie. Annie was very hard to rehabilitate after being adopted. She had been attacked by cats, and still, after six years is set-on being terrified of them.

Red Heelers are a mix of Dingo and collie-type dogs. Dingos aren't great at tolerating kids and I have found that most Heelers aren't, either. We've owned one before, and they're hardy little dogs. A friend had a farm and their Heeler worked all of their cattle. He bite the heel of the cattle, and then flatten himself on the ground when the cow kicked so the foot went right above his head. They're smart, but also stubborn and set-on. They're not hyperactive, but more ready for work than playtime.

So, none of those three dogs seem to fit you guys, especially for people new to owning dogs.

Good luck!

Can I suggest you look into gordon setters? The gordons I have met sound a lot like the kind of dog you are looking for, they have been a lot more laid back than other gun dogs I have met.

a lot of hair tho...grooming and such to keep them free of tangles...something to consider.

Good post but I disagree with this bit, Dingo may have been used in their original makeup but they are a long way from that now. But there are so many conflcting stories on how this breed began, its impossible to really know

They are a great dog, very loyal, protective and loving but they are by no means easy, the well bred ones have a more stable temperment, but they were originally bred here because very few dogs could survive/thrive the work they did and where they did it, they had to be smart enough to avoid a kick from a bull and tough enough to go back when they don't duck fast enough. All the time working in dry hot conditions conditions.
These dogs were cattle fences before there were fences. Some sources say they were mixed with kelpies at one stage to bring in some heading abilities, some say not.

Its sad seeing so many poorly bred ones, here atleast they are in every second home it seems, some are just your average family dog, but DA and HA are very common in the badly bred ones, even with socialisation. They need extensive training, excercise, mental stimulation and a strong, kind leader. They're family is there one and only, no one and nothing else matters outside that really. They can be a great family dog, but you have to be after more than a pet if you want one.

Great post mrose

I didn't think about Setters! Nice suggestion, Gina. I've met quite a few Gordons in my lifetime, and they are more laid back than the English & Irish Setters. The Gordon is much heavier boned, and not as hyper and hoppy as the Irish. A great family dog [a better family dog than the Irish or English, in my own opinion], but yes, a lot of grooming. The clipping and such is not as neccesary for a pet as for a show dog, and from the looks of it you are not looking for a show dog. They'd be very willing to romp and swim with you, and when you're done playing and ready to be laid back, they're happy to sleep on your lap.

The Gordon.


The English.


& The Irish.


If you decide to go for a setter, I'd go for the Gordon. I am confident you could find a Gordon of the smaller type.

I know a lot of people have said this already, but I think it bears repeating. NONE of those breeds you mentioned are good for your family! You said you wanted an active dog, but not a hyper one. All three of those breeds are known for having an absolutely insane amount of energy. I'm talking pull-your-hair-out-drive-you-crazy energy. It can drive even experienced owners to the point of tears. It's part of what what these dogs were bred for---the energy to work and run at full throttle all day long.

Instead, I think your family may do great with a sheltie (Shetland Sheepdog). Playful, active, but not with the over-the-top energy of those other breeds. They know when it's time to play and run, and they know when it's time to settle down. And they're not overly large dogs. I believe they usually weigh anywhere from 20-40 lbs. There are several sheltie owners on this board---maybe they can give you some info.

*drools* I've always had a thing for setters. especially the irish and english.
I'd still love one one day but my list keeps getting longer and I don't know if I ever will.

If you get an older puppy, you should know the size it will be, and many lab mixes are medium sized. Puppies are extremely difficult, and while there are advantages to raising a puppy, I'd seriously recommend an older puppy or young adult. They're much easier on the entire family, and puppies are unpredictable. With an older dog, you'll know the outcome of personality, size, etc.

If you're interested in shelties, definitely read this thread first: http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82916

They're great dogs but have a lot of qualities that make them unsuitable for a lot of people.

Why not a Golden ....much more laid back that any setter .

Is the OP still reading this thread?

I'm going to go against the grain here. If you and your family just LOVE one of those breeds for more than just looks then do some research and go for it. Heelers (ACD's) and border collies are common in most shelters and pounds across the country. You can search your local pound or search on petfinder for any of those breeds. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Know what you are getting into.

I'm sure this board would have told me, whe I was 10 and got my first ACD mix that it wouldn't be a good match. BEST family dog we have ever had. I trained her and worked with her constantly. I wanted an ACD and I got an ACD (mix) but she's ACD through and through. I love the breed, but I will tell you. If you are truly interested in them, meet a few. They are a love em or leave em type breed. When I meet people they either say "I had an ACD and I loved that dog so much." or "I had one and hated it, we had to rehome him." You have to have a certain personality to love this breed. They ARE NOT for everyone.

They DO make good family dogs. In fact, my two youngest dogs were never really exposed to children, but they LOVE them. Both of them are super gentle with babies and love younger kids. This breed is active. I would not put them in the 'hyper' category unless you allow the dog to rule your life and become bossy and neurotic. With two parents and three teenage (or almost) kids I think the dog will have enough love to go around. If everyone takes a part in his/her life there is no reason to think y'all wouldn't be able to handle it. Be consistent. Crate train.

If I had crate trained my first dog it would have saved a lot of furniture. That's the one thing I regret not doing with my first ACD. Good luck, but like I said, DO YOUR RESEARCH.

Whoa...Hold on there. That is definitely not true. I'm actually ANGRY at this post. This couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.

Border Collies make very good family dogs. Border Collies WANT to be with "there" people. If you look at Border Collies and there owners, they are one. Most BCs go everywhere with there owners -or atleast want to. They want so desprately to please there owner.

Yes, they take alot of work, training, and exercise. But it's not any different than any other dog. Yes, they are more "intense" then most other normal family pets, but that doesn't mean they dont make great family dogs. I've actually had an EASIER time training Blaze than Lizzie because he picks up on everything so much faster.

This makes my blood boil. Please, if you don't know much about the breed, don't go around saying stuff like this. Why would breeders dogs be that much different if WORKING BORDER COLLIE breeders are breeding for the temperment of a dog who wants to work as a team with the handler?! Yes, shelter dogs are different than a breeders dogs. But that doesn't mean they don't generally have the same temperment.

And I'm going to go against everyone else and say, yes, if you (OP) will do your homework, research breeders, the breed, talk to Border Collies owners, then yes I think if you still think you would like one, thenp persue getting one. Whether it be from shelter or breeder.

Heeler, I'm almost 16, too. I have 2 Border Collies and they are great for me and my personality. I'm a family of 6 with 4 dogs. They get along with the other dogs and people in the family. If you could give me a little more informal about what you'd like to do with this dog, that would be great. If you get a Border Collie, I definitely suggest getting into a sport with him/her. I currently am doing herding with my second BC, Blaze. That is definitely something to look into doing with your BC, if you decided on that breed. Also, I've seen in Blaze what looks like the making of a good Dock Diving Dog.

If you would like any information about the breed, please PM and I will be happy to talk with you about the breed.

Also I just wanted to add, my family has had goldens since before I was born. We also have had our fair share of shelter mixes. I still stand by the ACD as being a wonderful family dog. The goldens were wonderfully patient and calm, but the ACD's definitely have an additional something that, to me, makes them superior. I never feel unsafe when I travel because of my ACD's They are not vicious or mean, they are an aloof breed though. Very accepting of the familiar and somewhat wary of the unfamiliar.

Like I said, go with your heart and do your research.

No idea if the OP is even still reading...

But I got the impression this would be their fist pup ever maybe even first dog. I love BC and think they make great family pets with the right families. But I don't think they make good first dogs for busy families.

And there's a very good reason for that, so why recommend they get one for their first dog?

i absolutely cannot agree with you at all - an ACD, in particular a purebred, will require a firm and consistent owner who is willing to extensively socialize the breed, as well as devote plenty of time every single day to exercise - which does not include merely running around their "fenced in backyard." I also don't believe ACDs are the best choice for kids, either.

And besides that, these people have clearly never heard an ACD bark :rofl1:

No need to be angry. I wrote that post from my own experience with them. And I also wrote that there are Border collies who love to romp with their owners. But they are happiest working for their owners. From my OWN experience...

Where did you get that? That may be true for your area, but here I have never seen more than two BC -or mixs- in our HS.

If you don't mind me asking, Smexy, how many Border Collies have you worked with?