Obama Supports Same-Sex Marriage
- Thread starter ~Tucker&Me~
- Start date
I just can't grasp the concept of people wanting to be considered equal and allowed certain freedoms, and then actively fighting to deny that same equality and those same freedoms to someone else. I grew up Catholic. I attended Catholic school for 13 years. I still think it's selfish to expect rights you agree with to be granted to you, and expect those you don't to be taken away from others.
#1, I think the government needs to back off. I do not think that there needs to be a law over every single thing.
#2, I believe there is a difference in making something "illegal" and making something "legal". I will not vote to make gay-marriage LEGAL. But I am not voting on making homosexuality ILLEGAL. I believe it is a sin, yes, but I do not believe people should be imprisoned for it. ILLEGAL implies that one will be punished by law should they do that act. I do not believe that every sin needs to be punished by jail time/fines/community service/etc. Some sins are between us and God. But I believe that me SUPPORTING gay-marriage by voting to make it LEGAL would not put me in the right place with God. But I do not think homosexuals deserve to be put in jail. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." God loves us even though we are sinners, We should love each other even though we sin, but that doesn't mean we should ENCOURAGE sinning.
#2, I believe there is a difference in making something "illegal" and making something "legal". I will not vote to make gay-marriage LEGAL. But I am not voting on making homosexuality ILLEGAL. I believe it is a sin, yes, but I do not believe people should be imprisoned for it. ILLEGAL implies that one will be punished by law should they do that act. I do not believe that every sin needs to be punished by jail time/fines/community service/etc. Some sins are between us and God. But I believe that me SUPPORTING gay-marriage by voting to make it LEGAL would not put me in the right place with God. But I do not think homosexuals deserve to be put in jail. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." God loves us even though we are sinners, We should love each other even though we sin, but that doesn't mean we should ENCOURAGE sinning.
I'm probably just repeating myself, but to me there is a clear line between the religious *Sacrament* of Marriage and the secular *Legal Contract* of Marriage. They share that "marriage" word but are not the same thing.
Gay couples do not have the right to the sacrament of marriage. Neither do straight couples. The religious entity can determine by whichever rules or traditions they choose who gets that or any other sacrament.
But the legal contract version? That qualifies, to my eyes, as a basic right. In this country we allow legal marriages to take place outside religious ceremonies. As long as that is true, the religious argument against certain marriages need not apply, IMO.
Gay couples do not have the right to the sacrament of marriage. Neither do straight couples. The religious entity can determine by whichever rules or traditions they choose who gets that or any other sacrament.
But the legal contract version? That qualifies, to my eyes, as a basic right. In this country we allow legal marriages to take place outside religious ceremonies. As long as that is true, the religious argument against certain marriages need not apply, IMO.
God instructed his people to legislate other peoples' behavior? This is my problem with using religion as a basis for legislating things like who can get married. YOU follow the instructions not to get gay married all you like, but where exactly does God instruct you to vote for banning gay marriage? How hard is it to live and let live?
Like, there are some things I can understand (even if I don't agree) how you (the general you) can't separate your religious beliefs from what you think should be legislated - like, say, abortion - but this just... I just actually cannot wrap my head around how in the world instructions for personal behavior translate into secular legislation banning a behavior that harms no one and nothing for other people who may or may not believe in your god. That seriously is getting into theocracy territory to me. There are plenty of things that I believe quite deeply that guide my personal behavior that I wouldn't dream of imposing on other people through legislation.
I'm still waiting for a vote on banning divorce to come up, too. :/
Like, there are some things I can understand (even if I don't agree) how you (the general you) can't separate your religious beliefs from what you think should be legislated - like, say, abortion - but this just... I just actually cannot wrap my head around how in the world instructions for personal behavior translate into secular legislation banning a behavior that harms no one and nothing for other people who may or may not believe in your god. That seriously is getting into theocracy territory to me. There are plenty of things that I believe quite deeply that guide my personal behavior that I wouldn't dream of imposing on other people through legislation.
I'm still waiting for a vote on banning divorce to come up, too. :/
I'll agree with the sentiment but in this case not to the topic at hand. There are 1400ish rights associated with marriage legally in our country. IMO to deny any two consenting adults those rights is wrong.
You should have the ability to-
To inherit from someone who you've spent your life with
To visit them in the hospital after an emergency
To make decisions for who can no longer make them for themselves
Gain access to their benefits
File joint tax returns
Right now millions of gay relationships are treated as little more than roommates by the fed and states. I have a huge issue with that because even though I'm not gay and this will affect me personally not a wit - I see something granting more freedom to any consenting adult as a good and right thing to do.
You should have the ability to-
To inherit from someone who you've spent your life with
To visit them in the hospital after an emergency
To make decisions for who can no longer make them for themselves
Gain access to their benefits
File joint tax returns
Right now millions of gay relationships are treated as little more than roommates by the fed and states. I have a huge issue with that because even though I'm not gay and this will affect me personally not a wit - I see something granting more freedom to any consenting adult as a good and right thing to do.
FTR I believe in God...
That being said, I don't believe that most people would know what God's will is, even if it whacked them in the face. I for one cannot ever imagine anyone telling me who I could or could not marry.
Not many years ago there were laws against inter-racial marriage, they were put in JAIL just for loving and making a commited to someone that wasn't the "norm". If I wanted to marry my boyfriend (who is black btw) would people tell me that I didn't deserve the right to get married?
For those that want to say its not the same, think again because its more similiar than you might think, the funny thing is, this isn't really about "gay marriage" its about what this gateway amendment could become. I know that as long as I can talk, type, etc I will NEVER tell anyone that they dont deserve the same happiness that I do.
That being said, I don't believe that most people would know what God's will is, even if it whacked them in the face. I for one cannot ever imagine anyone telling me who I could or could not marry.
Not many years ago there were laws against inter-racial marriage, they were put in JAIL just for loving and making a commited to someone that wasn't the "norm". If I wanted to marry my boyfriend (who is black btw) would people tell me that I didn't deserve the right to get married?
For those that want to say its not the same, think again because its more similiar than you might think, the funny thing is, this isn't really about "gay marriage" its about what this gateway amendment could become. I know that as long as I can talk, type, etc I will NEVER tell anyone that they dont deserve the same happiness that I do.
The sacredness of marriage. I love when people bring up this argument.
It is really only recently it has become incredibly common to marry for love. Marriages were usually arranged by the family of the couple. They still do that in India. In fact, in North India the arranged marriage of child brides is common (illegal, but common). Marriage sure is sacred when in two clicks you can order a bride over the Internet. You heterosexuals have sure kept it pure.
I'm sure it wasn't too long ago people argued that interracial marriage was somehow "against God". But these days it's pretty much mostly acceptable.
If a church doesn't want to recognize gay marriage, fine. But there shouldn't be a reason that two people can't fill out legal documents for a marriage license at the justice of the peace just because they happen to have the same set of genitalia. I am a homosexual, and I believe in God. I no longer attend a church, as I no longer identify as Catholic and have no interest in visiting any of the non-denominational Churches in the area, but I believe. I believe that God would not have brought a certain person into my life (I have had much time to think about it, and everything just seemed so, orchestrated) if he thought my love for her was somehow sinful, especially since I wound up basically saving her life. I haven't stopped loving her, in fact I would go to the ends of the Earth for her if I needed to. And this devotion is wrong? Evil? Sinful? You may believe what you like, and I shall believe the opposite, but I know what I have seen and experienced with my own eyes.
It is really only recently it has become incredibly common to marry for love. Marriages were usually arranged by the family of the couple. They still do that in India. In fact, in North India the arranged marriage of child brides is common (illegal, but common). Marriage sure is sacred when in two clicks you can order a bride over the Internet. You heterosexuals have sure kept it pure.
I'm sure it wasn't too long ago people argued that interracial marriage was somehow "against God". But these days it's pretty much mostly acceptable.If a church doesn't want to recognize gay marriage, fine. But there shouldn't be a reason that two people can't fill out legal documents for a marriage license at the justice of the peace just because they happen to have the same set of genitalia. I am a homosexual, and I believe in God. I no longer attend a church, as I no longer identify as Catholic and have no interest in visiting any of the non-denominational Churches in the area, but I believe. I believe that God would not have brought a certain person into my life (I have had much time to think about it, and everything just seemed so, orchestrated) if he thought my love for her was somehow sinful, especially since I wound up basically saving her life. I haven't stopped loving her, in fact I would go to the ends of the Earth for her if I needed to. And this devotion is wrong? Evil? Sinful? You may believe what you like, and I shall believe the opposite, but I know what I have seen and experienced with my own eyes.
I'm not sure YOU would have the power to put her eternal soul at risk by loving her the way she is. Once you've stated your position clearly, isn't it pretty much out of your hands? I'm not trying to be snarky, I really don't understand what her adult decisions about her eternal soul would have to do with you and whether or how you supported her or didn't.
That's easy. I am saved, by grace through faith in Jesus Christ's perfect sacrifice. Am I a sinner? You bet. Do I deserve to be saved? Nope. Am I grateful that God has provided a way to overcome sin? Without question.
Its a perfect free gift. All you have to do is accept it. If you really accept it and believe, He is not going to let you go. Sin will try to pull you back and sometimes it will, but He is not going to let you go.
Its a perfect free gift. All you have to do is accept it. If you really accept it and believe, He is not going to let you go. Sin will try to pull you back and sometimes it will, but He is not going to let you go.
I am not going to put her in a position that would lead her to belive that disobiedience to God is OK. I will tell her the truth, no matter what. She will get to choose to live the way she wants too. I will not stop her. But I will always strive to teach her what I know to be true and why, but it will be her choice in the end. It has to be, you cannot force anyone to salvation.