The dog musing/vent thread

Ozfozz

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Gavroche full-on peed in the house today. One minute he was playing with the puppy, the next minute he's peeing all over the floor and acting like he had NO idea why it was coming out :( Definitely going to have to get a UA done on him when he goes to the vet. He's also grinding his teeth again >.<
Rigby did the SAME thing yesterday!
Granted she does have some SU issues, this was odd. No triggers, she was out about 2 hours ago. And yet she emptied her bladder while walking in the floor.

Our vet is open 9-12, already collected her first urine. Gotta drive half an hour out and half an hour back for class before 10am
 

Finkie_Mom

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You might try letting tempers cool for a few days and then try it again. Jari had enough and fought back, it's not terrible and doesn't mean he hates him... it's a fairly normal response actually. But I would let them kind of mellow out for a few days before working on it more.

Payton and Auggie had a thing for a bit. Payton was the one starting it though, and Auggie was just trying to run away. But it had to do with Payton's maturity (or immaturity, however you want to look at it.) Suddenly he was a big manly jerkface who wanted to try and throw his weight around. It's possible you've got something similar, because Jari is starting to mature into a dog, and is suddenly a "threat" that must be dealt with? I think his age might have something to do with it honestly.

Basically I put Payton back under a puppy protocol... if I can't watch you and make sure you don't try to start something, you are in your crate. When he would get in Auggie's space and Auggie would throw calming signals, I would call Payton away... basically reinforcing "he gave you a calming signal so go away" to P, and reinforcing to Auggie "a calming signal will make him go away." Payton got to where I would see Auggie give a calming signal and Payton's response was to flip around and come running over to me. Maybe not the 100% appropriate response in Dog Language, he wasn't technically obeying the calming signal... he was taking the calming signal as a cue to come to me. But it accomplished what AUGGIE needed (got P out of his space) so it worked for us.

I also did a lot of working again on Payton's self-control, which is a constant battle and he was starting to get away with things that he shouldn't have been allowed to get away with. I also did things like doing some calm sits and downs while they were near each other, slowly moving them closer. Lots of rewarding for calm behavior.

It was very upsetting when it was going on and for several weeks it was very stressful around here. But eventually, I stopped counting the days we went without a fight, because it was no longer an issue. Things that were triggers for that time period... I still try to avoid having the other dogs around for... but if Auggie wanders past while I'm toweling Payton off, P no longer launches himself at him starting a fight. I don't worry about them anymore. Every now and then somebody gets a little snarky, but it's so rare and usually it's over something clear (like somebody stepped on Uncle Auggie.)

It's tough for sure. Maybe after Bubbles comes back after she's spayed you can give it another shot and see if things have started to smooth out.
Nope, you're totally right. I know it does have something to do with Jari's age on Jari's end anyway as he decided that he was not going to take it anymore/he's still a puppy and wants to try to play with everyone forever. Though in his defense he WAS throwing out calming signals to Pen left and right on the first night of this. Pen would respect them, I gave Pen a treat because he would recall to me, Pen would play bow, Jari would respond in a playful manner to said play bow, and it would start all over again. When I tried them together again the next morning, Jari just went up to greet Pen like he would on any given morning (which is a bit exuberant), and it exploded again.

It wasn't until yesterday after two days of this weirdness that Jari really seemed to have had enough. So yeah the yard officially isn't safe now either. Though they had their thing last night when they were out in the yard, I called them off each other (this one took a few times and involved my physically touching Jari's legs to pull him away) then they were fine and went about their business??? Dogs are confusing.

They are fine with treats still which is great considering Pen used to be a huge food RGer. After I got them off each other last night, they both sat in front of me while I gave them treats. Then they calmed down and went their separate ways. Though I bought Pen back in the house relatively quickly after that though. And this morning they ate some cream cheese off a knife together (Pen had his head through a space between the gate and the wall) like they usually would.

I was told that the 18-24 months was the period to watch out for with male/male issues in this breed, but I suppose that Bubby coming in sped up that process a bit.

I am not taking any more chances and am giving them time now - I'm not even going to do any leashed walks even though they were totally OK with that last night. There was no blood shed through any of this luckily, and I know that if either wanted to do damage they would have. Your story gives me hope, Beanie :)
 
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I know rotating seems daunting, but if you can gate/rotate and they're ok on either side of the gates it's really ok depending on the layout of your house. It's a little easier for me because the boys are totally ok outside together, but that took time, too. It will be ok. :)
 

Finkie_Mom

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I know rotating seems daunting, but if you can gate/rotate and they're ok on either side of the gates it's really ok depending on the layout of your house. It's a little easier for me because the boys are totally ok outside together, but that took time, too. It will be ok. :)
I was actually thinking of your situation when I was figuring out how I can gate/rotate :)

I know your guys took time, too, to be OK outside. I believe that last night happened because usually Jari goes out and he and Bubby run around and play, so he went to try the same thing with Pen and obviously it did not work out.

I know this whole thing can be done with relative ease but it was just quite a blow to suddenly realize that our "way of being" might never be the same. And I'm not gonna lie - it was really nice to have all four of them with me on the couch some nights while watching TV/relaxing especially now that Jari is developing an off switch.

They are also OK being in the room with the other in a crate so that's also super helpful. There hadn't yet been an issue with their crates right next to each other, but I moved Jari's away from Pen's anyway. So Pen will be next to Kimma, then Bubby then Jari. Gives a bit more separation even if they might not "need" it. And it makes me feel like I'm doing something helpful LOL.
 

Slick

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Leo seems to have an upset stomach. He didn't eat much of his breakfast in the morning, which is unheard of for him. He wolfs it down normally.
I left it out, and he has now finished all of it a few hours later.

His behavior is completely normal and so are his poops, so I am just going to watch it for now. But it is always concerning from them to act differently, especially because this is the first time he has been under the weather since getting him.
 

Julee

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I think I'm going to start prepping Bloo for a CGC. We've both been cooped up in the house way too much lately.

Won't be trying to go for it until we're home, of course, but it'll be a fun goal.
 

DJEtzel

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I was actually thinking of your situation when I was figuring out how I can gate/rotate :)

I know your guys took time, too, to be OK outside. I believe that last night happened because usually Jari goes out and he and Bubby run around and play, so he went to try the same thing with Pen and obviously it did not work out.

I know this whole thing can be done with relative ease but it was just quite a blow to suddenly realize that our "way of being" might never be the same. And I'm not gonna lie - it was really nice to have all four of them with me on the couch some nights while watching TV/relaxing especially now that Jari is developing an off switch.

They are also OK being in the room with the other in a crate so that's also super helpful. There hadn't yet been an issue with their crates right next to each other, but I moved Jari's away from Pen's anyway. So Pen will be next to Kimma, then Bubby then Jari. Gives a bit more separation even if they might not "need" it. And it makes me feel like I'm doing something helpful LOL.
Vibes for them. Hopefully after some time apart and the spay you can reintegrate.

I crated and rotated for 8 months with my foster and it was hell. Two doors between him and other animals at all times because he would certainly try to kill Frag and sometimes wanted to kill Bailey... Plus having 4 roommates. Ugh. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone! :(
 

Julee

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FM, Bloo and Em took 8 or 9 months for Bloo to start listening to Em's stress signals. Even now, she needs some management, but it does get better. Hang in there.
 

iriskai

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Puppywant. With any luck… this time next year maybe.

Also received my email confirmations on both the April 12/13 trial and the Whippet National Agility today. I guess it's official.. and I should probably practice more.
 

noludoru

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This poor dog.

I had a lot to drink and thought it would be a good idea to pounce I him and hug him while he was drinking water.

WHY WOULD U THIBK THATS A GOOD IDEA.

Poor dog choked on his water for a bit, and all I can do is giggle. :eek:
 

Ozfozz

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Why do people let their dogs harass others at the VET?

Yesterday I went in nice and early to drop off Rigby's urine sample. Brought her in to get her weighed (29.2lbs!) and do some positive association with her and the office.

That all went to crap when this $***^$%@ with a young fluffy GSD, much bigger than Rigby, came in and starts pawing her in the face. I look from down from the reception to see Rigby hiding behind my legs and baring her teeth with a bewildered expression. When she moved enough away from the puppy that he couldn't get to her, the guy gave the pup MORE SLACK so he could get to her.

I snapped at him to control his dog. This. This is why my dogs don't like GSDs. Just once I'd like to meet one that wasn't owned by a complete moron. They've got such amazing traits that I've only read about.
 

Upendi&Mina

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Snitch went to his first puppy match yesterday. :) He was happy and relaxed both hanging out in the building and when it was his turn in the ring. He had no problems showing his bite or with the judge going over him, he stacked nicely for me, etc. Just hanging out in the building the other dogs and noise and people didn't bother him a bit. He was relaxed enough to pull out the tug toy I brought along and played.

He handled everything with confidence and we had fun, I couldn't have asked for more! Can't wait to do it again.

His breeder set him up after the match and got a picture. So my 15 week old puppy in all his leggy 15 week old glory.


He won his "class" and BOB Jr Puppy.


Tired puppy says playing show dog is hard work. (He is not as sad as he appears here, he was sleepy and his ears are taped. lol
 

Zoom

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Yup, going to have to get Sawyer a girl puppy. I'm house sitting for some friends who have a girl mini Aussie and Sawyer hasn't stopped flirting since we got here last night.
 

Finkie_Mom

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Vibes for them. Hopefully after some time apart and the spay you can reintegrate.

I crated and rotated for 8 months with my foster and it was hell. Two doors between him and other animals at all times because he would certainly try to kill Frag and sometimes wanted to kill Bailey... Plus having 4 roommates. Ugh. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone! :(
Well Justin let them out in the yard together (I was sleeping and he thought he was doing a good thing - his new job has him not here all week every week so I don't think he knew how "serious" it was getting) and they were fine until Pen went for a ball Jari was trying to dig out of the snow. Pen gave him a pretty strong correction but Justin was able to just call Pen away to play with another ball. He said Jari gave in to the correction but he was worried that Pen wouldn't stop being on his case so he just redirected him. Progress?

At least my situation hopefully won't be as bad as yours was DJ.

FM, Bloo and Em took 8 or 9 months for Bloo to start listening to Em's stress signals. Even now, she needs some management, but it does get better. Hang in there.
That's what I think it's going to be - just a long process. The whole thing is just bizarre, with Pen like giving off signals that he wants to play just to be like over-corrective when Jari does go to play. Even outside Justin said that they ran out together and were acting totally normal before they went for the same ball.

Also received my email confirmations on both the April 12/13 trial and the Whippet National Agility today. I guess it's official.. and I should probably practice more.
YAY! Exciting :D

In other news, Bubbles is being spoiled rotten at my in-laws' house and I don't think she's going to want to come back home with me when all is said and done :eek:
 

DJEtzel

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That's what I think it's going to be - just a long process. The whole thing is just bizarre, with Pen like giving off signals that he wants to play just to be like over-corrective when Jari does go to play. Even outside Justin said that they ran out together and were acting totally normal before they went for the same ball.
I've seen a lot of dogs do this in shelters. Usually in our setting we opted not to keep introducing them to dogs for the risk, but based on their behavior I had no doubt that they could get along with those dogs given the right supervision and management training.

I don't know where it stems from for sure, but a lot of the time it *seemed* like they were generally interested in interacting/playing, but a fear kicked in for whatever reason halfway through and they wanted to bail - leaving a hard correction, and many dogs took that MAYBE once before they told them off back for being an asshole, really. Like a 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me' type thing. They didn't want to give in to get corrected more than once.

I wonder if maybe all the hormones changing in Jari could be freaking Pen out a lot and he gets a little worried once he tries initiating that he's going to pull something because he's ALSO a boy now, and kind of panics and does all he knows how to make it stop, but Jari doesn't want to keep getting corrected for following through with play signals, so they get into it. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, really. :p
 

CharlieDog

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Some insight onto the corrections even though he's initiating contact with play signals.

Ozzy does this. He will play bow at Indy, but when Indy responds, he corrects and gets snarky. He's afraid of losing control of the situation. Redirection works (I redirect Indy, not Ozzy, because Indy just gets confused, stiff legged and hackles, she doesn't go for him)

Redirecting Indy gives Ozzy the space he needs to realize he CAN still control the play, he gets over himself a little bit, and they can go back to playing pretty quickly. He will only play bitey face with Enzo, but he will wrestle and play chase and catch me if you can with Indy without and issue. It DID take a long time, because Indy plays like a bull in a china shop, complete with slamming into the other dog (Ozzy does not like) and she's learned to play with him, and to back off when he needs space.

Ozzy is a known dog aggressive dog. He's dog reactive, and won't hesitate to put holes in another dog in a fight. Zero bite inhibition with dogs. It took a long time to get him to where he can play, happily, with another dog. Now he needs maybe a week or so before he will initiate play with another dog, and then a few days before they can play without me playing "cop".

Once he plays chase or catch me if you can with another dog, I know they'll be fine together and everyone can chill out in the house without crating and rotating their time out. The only thing that will still start fights is something of HIGH HIGH value. There are no bitches in heat here anymore (and when Indy was in heat, she got away with bloody murder with him) and so only food or toys are of value. If a new food or toy comes in, I give it to Indy first. Steven doesn't think this is fair, but if I give it to Oz first, it will cause an altercation.

Once Ozzy has realized that the toy is going to get played with by EVERYONE, he has no issues sharing, or allowing another dog to walk by him while he has it.

Ozzy has been a difficult dog to raise and manage and he'll be EIGHT this year, but on the whole, he's improved about as far as I think he'll ever improve. He can be on the beach with other dogs going past and he'll ignore them. Even off leash. Or on leash. I do not allow meet and greets with him, on or off leash because if the dog tries to "one up" him, he's going to erupt with teeth flashing.

But with family dogs and dogs that are fosters or here for however long, he can learn to live peacefully with them now. When he was younger, it was a different story.

Jari probably needs to learn that Pen needs space, if Pen is being weird than he needs to walk away, and Pen needs to learn that Jari giving off calming signals means nothing is going to happen.
 

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