Suwannee Sunset Shibas

I think this right here is key. Over the past few years I've changed A LOT of my opinions on dogs (from breeding to training to nutrition) and frankly will continue to do so the more I learn. I also like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt to begin with . . . and unfortunately it ends up burning me in the end. There doesn't seem to be a happy medium. LOL!

I've said this once before recently, so this is the last time I will say it...

This is not a witch hunt forum!!!!

New posters do not need to be talked down to. They do not need to be called liars or assumed to be BYB based on first impressions, regardless of what their site or posts may indicate.

I am sick and tired of the attitudes around here. No one is above anyone else, regardless of how great you think you are or how long you have been here.

Our goal is to educate, not humiliate, demean or prove a point. And it certainly isn't anyone's right to jump to conclusions based on limited information.

If you can't have a civil discussion or ask questions in a non-accusing manner, then I suggest you take a step back, calm down and rethink what you are about to post.

MT, for my personal clarification, could you elaborate on which posts weren't civil? I'm afraid I may have missed them, and I'm beginning to question my critical reading skills.

Many assumptions are made on this forum without first asking questions and waiting for answers. Before you know it, you'll be labeled as a BYB and even a puppy mill. By the time you come to defend yourself, the damage has been done. And yes, she thinks that by bashing your site and kennel and having this show in Google will somehow educate you about something. What is this going to educate you? Not to come to this forum anymore or it will tell others that you are a BYB? How does that help her?

Thank you!!!!

HOLY CRAP! Chill!!!! That was completely uncalled for.

They said it was their webmaster, which makes sense.

Suwannee, I hope you stay. I'm sorry you received such a poor reception, but hopefully we can make it up to you. This place isn't always mean and accusatory.

Thank You, Cali.

As I said, and you have also pointed out for me, it was my webmaster who has *nothing* to do with my dogs or my program. He hosts my sites and helps me with maintenance. In this case, he attempted to share the site (without my knowledge) with a group of people he thought would be interested. He simply copied the first line of text from my site to make the post which is why it says "we....". Plus, I have already conceded that that section of wording on my site needs to be modified, and will make those modifications as soon as I can.

So....I went back and quoted the first page of responses. Some may say I'm biased, because yes, I'm married to Dekka....but those that know me also know that I'll argue with her too if I feel she's wrong about something.

So, in the first response, all I see are questions to the original post. They are direct and to the point, yet there is no maliciousness, or 'witch hunt', strictly straight questions that any well educated dog person would (and SHOULD) be asking of a breeder.

If the original poster, which we have now learned was a webmaster, had came back in a timely manner and replied to these questions, a lot of this would have been avoided in the first place.

Later, suwanee comes on and told us this was posted without her knowledge. Sure, it happens....unfortunately, when you hire someone to do something, be prepared to deal with any side effects, good or bad.

We have seen people come on Chaz over time and promote businesses (not just breeders) and of course, some are great, some are bad, and a lot are somewhere in the middle. Some of the ones that aren't as great don't survive, some learn and improve. The ones in the middle, hopefully learn and get even better. The great ones, they will also tend to try to learn and improve as much as they can.

Do some make mistakes? Sure, I know we've made a few too. The difficult part is swallowing your pride, and learning to pick up and keep going, learning and improving along the way. I have scars from dog bites, some were my own fault, I'll admit that. Some were unavoidable, but happened. Some were from trying to do things that others said couldn't be done, like working with abused and neglected rescues that only had us as a last chance.

Reading through the rest of the thread, it's the amalgamation of other comments that turned this thread sour, not any one post in particular IMO. Had the original questions been answered in a timely manner (which is a pretty reasonable request on a DISCUSSION forum, this thread would have remained a lot more civil in tone.

It's unfortunate, but as I posted a long while ago, if the board was run better these things wouldn't happen. (see my post here http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t94714-9/#post1331462

I personally only know a couple of Shiba's, one is competing at AAC in a high level....I want to say that dog might have been on the world's team, but I'm not certain, so don't quote me! I think they are awesome dogs though.

Suwanee (I hope I've got that spelled right, going by memory!) I'm looking forward to being educated about Shiba's, and I suspect many others here are too. However you will also find there is enough knowledge here that facts presented need to be correct, or in many cases it will be corrected. Simply put, most are here for the well being of the animals, their own, and dogs in general. This community tends to be vocal, but also tight knit, sort of like a huge, loving, and sometimes dysfunctional family. However, one doesn't get 'born' into the family, they must earn their way in by demonstrating things such as respect, knowledge, a willingness to learn, and occasionally a shot or two of humour!

Ok, well I did take a step back. and took a second and reread my post.
Im sorry i came off that harsh, it had a lot to do with me being upset and less to do with you suwanne, and for that I apologize. I did not read your 2nd post and now that I have and am finally nice and calm, id like to say, WELCOME TO CHAZ lol

we really aren't all that bad. just a passionate quirky bunch lol

Now.. how bout more pictures of that cute pup in your avatar?!

again, i apologize for my rude response. beleive me, it had almost nothing to do with you, just an icky PMS day lol

Again again, welcome I hope you do stay and share pictures and stories, its nice to have breeders on this forum! its means more puppy pictures! lol

I hope that you will really read through the thread. I never saw anyone call anyone a liar, and I don't think anyone feels they are above anyone else. UNLESS someone comes in and blatantly lies, spreads false information, or does something that could lead to unnecessary suffering, in which case someone calls them out on it.

MT, you should know from your own experience here when you arrived, walking in with a big stick doesn't earn people's respect. Joining, posting, learning and sharing however does, and quickly too.

Everyone needs to chill out, calm down and back off. We've already established that the opening post was badly worded and I would be having words with someone who was out promoting a website that wasn't ready to be live.

Suwannee, what I hope you can gather from all this is that we are a very passionate bunch about dogs, in particular about good, solid breeding practices. We recognize that the AKC and the Can.KC are not the end all, be all of registries and have in fact done more harm than good to most breeds they've accepted. However, they are at least a starting point and unless one can prove that they are breeding to the original or parent registry standards (like ASCA for Aussies, CAFIB for Filas or JRTC for JRT's), it's typically a red flag when it's announced that someone is breeding with apparent disregard for ANY breeding standard. We do tend to get hounded by millers, BYB's and people looking to promote sleezy classified sites to the former. It's made us a bit snappy and gun-shy...a massive majority of this board works in rescue, others work to keep our rights as dog owners intact and the end result is that we're getting tired of being picked on for the mistakes of others. Once you get past the hard exterior, we really are quite fun, as evidenced by those that have such seemingly huge problems with the forum between it's members and how it's run and the fact that they still stick around and participate.

A few years ago we had a Shiba enthusiast, TempuraTantrum was her name, and she was amazingly involved and informative about Shibas. They're neat little buggers!

:hail:

Hey ...

Just came back from doing (the unending) movie shoot with Dekka.

As for my intro website thread..Many of the snarky responses were in PM... Nolu in particular gave me a VERY hard time . It seems to be one of the threads that has been lost over time (like posts) here on chaz as it was in the same subforum as this thread.. but when I searched it said I had never started a thread on here. Really people were asking the same sort of questions..But I explained myself and all was fine.

I personally would be firing your webmaster.

The pages of mine that are up are finished. They were put up a couple of days before you posted (I had got a new domain name.. I haven't had a web site in a year or so so had to get the hosting switched over) It is live so people on chaz could give me feedback. It is not advertized at this point, nor are there tags or anything to help it get picked up by search engines.

In stead of getting defencive (which always looks guilty) why not just educate us. You can't blame us for believing your web page.... If what is on there isn't what you mean then you need to change it (which is why this one is so different from my last one... I didn't mention any health testing either.. even though I did do it)

Or you could ask us WHY these are 'red flags' and ask us and use some of our feed back to make a website (and breeding practises to go along with it) that will stand out there and shine

Really there is no maliciousness. Just a strong desire to NOT help promote the very people who fill shelters and rescues. (I hear shibas are the hot new puppymill dog )

It's in the Fire Hydrant

how did it get there? hmmmm Wait I can't find it (when I posted my first website shortly after I joined Chaz...)

Oh...I thought you meant the new one.

No the old one where people picked a part my website... (and called me a byb ... at least till I 'spained myself)

Re several issues in this thread, you can lead the horse to the water but you cannot make it drink.

Some people learn when things are pointed out to them.

Some do not.

Breeding the same pair on a serial basis, or using dogs with disqualifying faults, is a red flag to people who breed with real improvement and the best interest of their breed in mind.