Training for Show and Obedience at the same time

How, exactly, do you do this?

The boy I'm bringing home later this summer will be a show dog, as well as any other fun dog sport I can get him into. I want to show him and obedience train him at the same time, but I don't want to confuse him or confuse myself, or even ruin his ability to show.

I'm a decent obedience handler, but I've never shown...I don't want to ruin his chances of finishing because I taught him something for obedience and it throws off his show ring behavior - for example, for Obedience training, obviously I want him to have auto sits when I stop, stay close to me, heel nicely. But when I show him, he needs to be able to get away from me, gait beautifully, basically show himself off physically, know that we don't sit in "this" ring, we stand and stack ourselves.

I haven't even brought him home yet...and I'm worrying about ruining him LOL.

Any helpful hints would be appreciated!

Well, first off, different equipment - dogs get collar smart, so you can use that to your advantage. The thin show lead is for conformation, the flat collar is for sport. Also, use different commands.

The problem I ran into with trying to train Morgan for obedience and conformation was that she had beautiful natural focused attention which I was reinforcing for obedience. My conformation trainer asked me to not encourage her looking up at me because it was breaking the top line too much. I never got it back quite so well when I wanted it for obedience. Given the choice again, I would never do anything to compromise that kind of attention. I would prefer to not have the top line.

Many in my Golden Club do both . Just have fun !

I don't really make any distinction in equipment. I play conformation sometimes with the obedience collar and lead, and vice versa. My dog knows the difference in what I am asking by how she is set up, how I behave, and what I ask her to do.

I have trained every dog I have ever had in obedience from day one, along with conformation. I've never had a single issue. However, I do spend just as much time training stand as I do sit. I also teach the dog to lead out when gaiting, as well as heel and pay attention with eye contact.

So many people worry about the dog sitting. The worse problem is when you can't get a dog to stop looking at you when gaiting. When they do this, it causes the front to lift, the rear to kick out to the side, etc.

So, if you handle it intelligently, it should never be an issue.

Just the person I was waiting for, Red

So basically, I'm worrying too much? I'm going to start practicing conformation handling tomorrow night on Sizzle's Ronin so I can start to get a feel for what I need to do to be successful.

Just needed the reassurance that I don't need to worry that much about it.

True that you don't need to use different equipment, but it can help. Especially in the early training. Dogs get smart to equipment. Ultimately we want them trained to do whatever we ask if them regardless of equipment, but we also can use equipment to our advantage. The dog always goes in the conformation ring in a show collar, so teaching him that collar and lead means for him to lead out and gait can be useful.

Yea, and if they do sit, it's not the end of the world. I was watching the corgi ring at one show, and right before the judge picked the winner, while all the dogs were supposed to be stacked in a line, one of them started rolling around in the grass. That was the dog that won

So Red, if you have a dog with amazing natural focused attention, and you get the dog to stop looking at you when gaiting, how do you get that level of focused attention back for obedience? I'm not talking about a taught attention.

Yes, you're worrying too much

I don't show but from a behavioral standpoint, I would think for comformation, the dog should be able to distinguish that kind of moving and not craning his neck to look at you by some kind of cue. If it's the way you move or hold the leash in comformation vs. obedience, that should be enough of a cue for him to distinguish how he should carry himself. Dogs are so atuned to tiny differences which I've found makes cuing small distinctions or subtlties easy for them to pick up.

So when practicing at home and later other places, after a more free flowing movement as you'd do in conformation, you can change your demeanor or some subtle thing you do to cue the dog back into the "obedience mode." And you could practice volleying back and forth so he gets onto the two separate styles just like doing two different behaviors of other types or contexts.

Of course, like anything else, your timing with reinforcers would have to be good so you reinforce for giving the behavior....and then giving the behavior on cue, once he's associated the cue to the behavior. That's my non-showing stab at a guesstimate anyhow.

I use different equipment for each. I also hold my arms differently for each. I have noticed I also hold the bait differently as well. When doing OB I don't keep it out in my hand, where as for the ring I try to keep some in my hand. As far as him learning or getting confused about sitting in the ring. He might do that, but just stack him back up. Ivan still will sit in the ring given the chance (hes a lazy butt though). He will catch on to the differences in what you want him to do.
The pup will eventually learn the differences in the clothing you wear as well, the bags and/or coolers you pack too. Thats always fun, when the only time your dog sees you in dressy clothing is when there is a show, then suddenly sees you dressed up, or the first time someone uses "the special show" cooler.

You mean you're going to learn humility tomorrow, with Ronin? I still can't find his show lead, it's got to be in the house *somewhere*... argh!

HeHe, humility

I'm glad though....that I'm worrying too much! Thanks for all the great advice everyone.

Obviously, in a few months you'll see how it's all working out.

Puppies that I raise have the kind of attention you are talking about. Some moreso than others. Milton is very good at it. Mike is supernatural. He is wasted in my hands. For sure OTCH material if he could take the pressure. He has got the brain and the drive and the love for it.

I don't teach the dog not to look at me. I teach him to run out at the end of the leash, where he naturally runs ahead and looks where he is going.

So in the breed ring when I move with a dog, my arm goes out at a 90 degree angle, my hand goes way in front of my body, and the dog knows immediately what he's supposed to do.

When training puppies, I teach them to gait across an area to a piece of bait, or teach them to follow another dog in handling class.

Gotcha!

It's a corgi vs rottie difference. Corgis don't go out ahead as much as rotties do, so for Morgan, gaiting was still too similar to heeling and in the early stages to try to teach attention for one and not the other was too difficult for her to differentiate.

That makes total sense Red!

Now, I just need to get some practice in with Ronin before puppy comes home.

Did I mention I thought of an interesting name today? For some reason...it feels "real."

Bruda Stealin your Thunder - "Repo"

Interesting in the fact that I thought of this out of the blue, when the breeders' top winning dog was BIS/BISS CH Marienburg's Repo Man - "R.P".

This is SO MUCH FUN. I am ADDICTED.

i'm not sure if RP was her top winnign dog or not - could have been - not sure how he stacked up against Ch. Bruda Teller of Tales though... gawd he was a neat dog...