Obama To Redifine Cancer

eddieq

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#2
Nothing wrong with a clarification/alternate terminology for such a far reaching umbrella word. I've heard people even say, when told about someone having cancer that it's the "good kind" (I'm guessing meaning non-life-threatening).

Ultimately, it's just a word. The opinion piece that was linked does make some good points about being careful that the redefinition doesn't get abused for political means, but no matter what "they" call it, health insurance companies already limit/exclude treatments based on the type of diagnosis a patient has, so there really is nothing new under the sun.

As a separate note, I didn't see the word "Obama" anywhere in the linked piece. It was the NCI that published a paper citing overdiagnosis and suggesting the change in classification.
 
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#3
Thanks, Obama!


Seriously, I can see where they're going with this. There is a lot of testing and screening done that has a very low chance of yielding information on a large scale, even stuff like mammograms. (It's funny that they use that as an example because as a 40s-age woman, after a long talk with my doctor this year about mammograms I decided not to do one, and after that discussion I wouldn't be surprised if for women 40-49 they DO become considered "unnecessary" screening tests on a population basis for women without a family history of breast cancer before too long, and it has nothing at all to do with Obama.)

Americans are a weird mixture of totally risk-intolerant and wanting to screen for everything under the sun no matter how misleading or low yield the results might be for any particular individual, while still wanting the health care system to be cost efficient and inexpensive. We just need to decide which way we want to err in that balance, but it doesn't have anything to do with the government.
 
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Sounds good.

A neighbor is having a 15 year old DOG treated with chemo. Honestly, age, or the chemo is going to kill the dog faster than cancer. Same with humans, prostate cancer when you're 90 might keep you from owning the worlds oldest person record, but not much else.

Screening can now find so many small and slow growing problems, or cases of precancerous cells, that to group them with aggressive type cancers is its own problem.
 

joce

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#5
What the insurance companys dictate is much worse.
 
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#6
Something like this is much needed and like others have said, it has ZERO to do with Obama. I was having a similar discussion the this pas weekend in fact.

Let's just say I have a huge problem with the exploitation of breast cancer by various org's and companies in this country. but that's another discussion all together.

We do need to get better. I know most people think we've made great strides in Cancer treatments, but in reality, outside of childhood cancers, we haven't really done much at all. We're not that good. But numbers can be cooked and stats manipulated and most Americans are educated about Cancer by org's such as the American Cancer Society, an org that makes more when they convince you to give more. My aunt was a regional director for them, she has stories and she's not proud. It was the main reason she left. But again, another discussion.

To make it simple we detect a lot more cancer mostly because we're looking. Makes sense. And we're treating a lot more cancer because we find it. And our 5 year survivals are up, great news right?

Not really, our impact on advanced cancers and death and overall death is barely noticeable. Studies done here, thru autopsy of women that lived normal lives and died "naturally" show that about 20% of women that have never had an abnormal mammogram or any symptoms of breast cancer, or died from anything related to cancer, did in fact have DCIS something that is commonly referred to as cancer and has been for quite some time. The word cancer illicits a much different physical and emotional response than some more "benign terms that are much more fitting but often not used.

and in the Netherlands i believe, they conducted a similar study. Mammograms are much less used there than here, and they found that almost 40%, yes 40% of women that lived complete lives and died of something other than cancer, did in fact have breast cancer that never needed to be treated. It never affected their lives in anyway.

would that 40% be similar here in the US if we didn't screen and treat so aggressively here? and would it make a difference? I mean, what's the point of screening for and treating something so aggressively that isn't going to do anything anyway? and are these the types of cancer we are "curing" here in the US?

I mean do you really "cure" someone from something that was never going to affect them anyway?

The treatment isn't exactly fun, and is very, very costly. Just screening is very costly. There are a lot of questions and we do need more answers, not more money thrown at org's that promote nothing but antiquated and minimally effective screenings as their "answer" to cancer.

There are a lot of researchers that have noted our screening is great for catching things that aren't going to harm us, and not so good at differentiating between those and the harmful ones and the harmful ones are often times missed on screening because they go from undetectable to full blown in weeks and if your screen was 6 months ago? what's the point?

Which brings me back to earlier and the cancer orgs that bring in billions upon billions and most of that goes towards overhead and salaries and not to the reseachers to figure this stuff out. Almost none of it goes towards "prevention", but a lions share goes towards screening and detection. I know these things cost money and it has to be raised somehow, but we raise enough and not much goes where it should IMO. The NFL for example would be better off launching a campaign like their kids 60 everyday for adult women. They'd do more to prevent breast cancer than by promoting it like they do.

anyway, back on track. We need to get better at differentiating and diagnosing cancer. We don't need more "awareness" about breast cancer, which to me exists purely to exploit breast cancer and separate you from your money to put in someone else's pocket. Our current screens, other than Pap smears are very, very costly and yield little in the way of tangible results. They also cause their share of problems. It's not PC to say, but it's true.

I guess I'm not really on track, i'm more or less ranting because I just watched a day of football yesterday and got sick of all the exploitation of Breast cancer for monetary gain. I realize what I've said doesn't have a lot to do with the article other than, yes we need to get better at differentiating and not everybody is a candidate for invasive treatments because of some abnormal cells. and this does NOT belong on the Political front at all, though I'm sure Boner's and the Pelosi's of the world would be only too happy to make it political.
 
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#7
There may be people overdoing it with screening but I very much believe in screening for breast cancer. I almost lost someone I know to advanced stage breast cancer and she was well below the age recommended for screening. That should be a lesson for everyone.
 
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There may be people overdoing it with screening but I very much believe in screening for breast cancer. I almost lost someone I know to advanced stage breast cancer and she was well below the age recommended for screening. That should be a lesson for everyone.
See, this was part of the conversation I had with my doctor. And this is all based on my recollection of that conversation so I don't have links, but I'm sure I could get some references from her.

Outside of women with a family history of breast cancer, it's my understanding that there are two groups of women most commonly affected by breast cancer: Young women like your friend, younger than mammograms are usually recommended, who tend to get a very aggressive form of cancer and senior women who tend to die "with" breast cancer rather than "from" cancer (as release the hounds alluded to above).

In any case, she said the most common thing that leads to a diagnosis of breast cancer is... women noticing a lump in their breast, not mammograms. Not even monthly self-exams. Just, one day you happen to notice a lump. Far more benign tumors are diagnosed by mammograms (and the subsequent biopsies, etc) than breast cancers.

The question is whether as a society is how do we want to spend our health care resources. On low-yield, not very sensitive or specific tests like mammograms or on high-yield, sensitive and specific tests like pap smears. Or both? Or neither? We have to decide, but we can't do things like routinely do tons of low yield screening tests on everyone in the country and then expect health care costs to stay low. If you're the one in a million whose life was saved by that mammogram, then yea you're going to be glad we chose the screenings. But if you're one of a whole bunch of people who can't even afford basic preventative care as a result, maybe you're not so glad.

Honestly some days I think we should just go back to fee for service.
 

Saeleofu

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#9
Nothing wrong with a clarification/alternate terminology for such a far reaching umbrella word. I've heard people even say, when told about someone having cancer that it's the "good kind" (I'm guessing meaning non-life-threatening).

Ultimately, it's just a word. The opinion piece that was linked does make some good points about being careful that the redefinition doesn't get abused for political means, but no matter what "they" call it, health insurance companies already limit/exclude treatments based on the type of diagnosis a patient has, so there really is nothing new under the sun.

As a separate note, I didn't see the word "Obama" anywhere in the linked piece. It was the NCI that published a paper citing overdiagnosis and suggesting the change in classification.
:hail: :hail: :hail:


the chemo is going to kill the dog faster than cancer
No it's not. Chemo is different in dogs than it is in people. In people it's used to get rid of cancer completely at all costs, even if it makes the person suffer. In dogs, it's made to make them as comfortable as possible for as long as possible. If it's making the dog sicker you're doing it wrong - it's only to improve quality of life.
 

JennSLK

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#10
Eddie I said it was Obama because the previous three articles I read all said directly it was the Obama administration pushing this and who started this.
 

Pops2

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Sounds good.

A neighbor is having a 15 year old DOG treated with chemo. Honestly, age, or the chemo is going to kill the dog faster than cancer. Same with humans, prostate cancer when you're 90 might keep you from owning the worlds oldest person record, but not much else.

Screening can now find so many small and slow growing problems, or cases of precancerous cells, that to group them with aggressive type cancers is its own problem.
I don't know about you, but I intend to still be using my prostate at 90.
 

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