Jon Katz

I am not defending him in anyway so don't take this wrong. When we lived on the farm, 250 acres the farm houses were located at the front. THat was where the dogs were, including one that was aggressive that belonged to the farm owners. WE were the surfs. People come and people go on a farm. I woudln't want to fence one in way in the back..I don't know what the answer to that is only that the size of the farm doens't necessarily mean there is space for one somewhere else. THat woudl be a lonely. IF your a social person and the dog is glued to you that would be difficult.

DOes anyone else know what happened to the other dogs or is this the only one? Guess I should go look at his website.

Yeah, it's really disappointing that he's not a better trainer/dog person. Because I think I would find his books enjoyable if I could get past what he did/does to his dogs.

Rose is the one that had to put up with a ton from him during her herding training. In the book, Dogs of Bedlam Farm, he pushed her and pushed her when she was really young and he shouldn't have.

I knew it was pretty big. I guess I don't understand how he'd find a more isolated place than a 110 acre farm. :/

My biggest problem is when Katz is brought up on other all breed boards Orson is paraded as the 'dog to remind people not to have bcs'. Border collies face a lot of stereotypes and it irks me that he is passed off as an expert to some and his dogs used as examples to further the border collie stereotype.

Same for me... I read part of one of his books in a bookstore once and I just wasn't enjoying it. I can't say for sure if it was just bias to the author or if I just wasn't a fan of how he writes. I consider him a lot like Cesar Milan. He's an entertainer masquarading as somebody far more knowledgable, and dogs suffer for it. =P

I think that could be part of the disconnect between the 'disney' idea of dogs and actual dogs. Its a rare find to get someone who is actually good with dogs as well as being a great writer, or charismatic reality tv star. Pop culture cares more about the flavour of the moment than the actual content of what they are consuming.

Patricia McConnell. I think she's a wonderful writer and has not only a great knowledge of dogs and their behavior, but has such a full spectrum, heart felt love for them.

Also, the woman who wrote "Bones would rain from the sky"

I will look both of those up thank you.

Oh yes..Suzanne Clothier. That's a wonderful book. I read that quite a few years ago. Also, I think Jean Donaldson is a good writer. She is very economical with her words, something I admire especially and wish I could be more that way. LOL. And yet, she paints a very good picture. The style is much different, she gets right in there and tells it like it is, gets the job done, no nonsense. But as far as comparing to more like you're reading a captivating novel, Patricia McConnell is just really good, imo.

My grandma and I have read a lot of the Jon Katz books about Orson and Rosie and all the others. He is a very insightful writer and knows how to tell a great story. We enjoy them very much.

I enjoyed Bones Would Rain from the sky for the most part.. but it was a bit too 'out there' in some ways. I love Jean Donaldson but she doesn't write stories. Shaping Success is a good story, nicely written but very much geared towards agility fans. (not that it isn't a great read for anyone interested in dogs)

What we need is someone like Dr Ian Dunbar to write the equivalent of My Horses My Teachers by Alois Podhajsky.

I Found a stack of the old dog classics at the thrift store and have been reading them one by one. I was thinking today that although i hate coon hunting, how it is done, the whole business of it, i can still enjoy the book because of Little Ann and Old Dan. Same for Old REd. COuldnt' disagree more with the show end of it and how it was making the BEST of the breed. A lot has happened since that book was written to prove that mankind just screwed everything up even with our "good" intentions. I don't have to agree with every word that is written in a book to take some good from it and i guess i feel the same way about Jon Katz's books. There are good parts in there and I don't regret reading them. Any more than I do Where the REd Fern Grows. I have read Old Yeller outloud to both my children and twice since then, and i bawl every time. Good Dog books are hard to come by. I only wish the modern ones could come close to the old greats. THey seem so sterilized somehow.

But...Where the Red Fern Grows is a fictional story . Jon Katz' books are nonfiction.

My point was I can read something I don't totally agree with but i can still find some good in it. I think there is some good in his books. I enjoyed learning about Izzy and the bull. Liked them both a lot. I will have to find Bedlam farms so I can find out about how he pushed rose. I thought she came by it naturally.
I am curious.

I agree Smkie. A book can be well written, entertaining and enjoyable, even if, say....in the case of books about dogs, the people don't know beans about training dogs or whatever. Take Marley and Me. That was one of the best written dog stories I've ever read. It was poignent, funnier than hell and incredibly entertaining. And he reason Marley was such a "bad" dog is because those people were clueless about how to train a dog. There were all kinds of little parts in the book and the movie where you could see their big mistakes. But I could shrug them off because the owners adored Marely and he was treated kindly and loved beyond most peoples' capacity. And he wasn't claiming to know anything about dogs. He pretty much admitted that they were flying by the seat of their pants. There was nothing instructive about the book whatsoever. It was merely a story.

As far as a book specifically (or even incidentally) designed to teach people HOW to handle or train dogs, such as Cesar Milan's book, I don't care how entertaining it might be, IF it's teaching unsuspecting people to mistreat dogs, I am pretty sure I would object to it. Even if there are parts of it that are good, I would never recommend a book that also has parts which would misguide people into doing harm to their dogs or their relationship with their dogs.

I haven't read Jon Katz's book so I can't make any judgement about that one.