Showing in Conformation Questions

Ok,

I'm new to this forum and have been seaching for one that may have some people on it that show Papillons or know about showing in general.

Last year I bought I show quality papillon, but I haven't gotten very far in the whole showing business. I would like some opinions on him if anyone has any. Here's a link to my webshots, his name is Troy: http://community.webshots.com/album/548430552PMZwDx
What do you think?

I've since met a friend in college who's showed dogs in the AKC until she came to college. If I wanted to, I could have her be Troy's handler since she knows way more than me!!

Is there a website where I can learn about the ins & outs of dog showing?

How much does it cost, generally, to show in the AKC? If he showed this summer, it would only be at a few shows in Lima, OH, which is about a 1/2 hour from me and convienetly where my friend lives.

Do I have to be a member of the Kennel Club in order to have Troy shown or does only the person who is handling him have to be a member?

If she was to handle for me, what should I consider paying her?

Does he have to be registered in the AKC to show, or simply eligible? I have all his papers but haven't gotten around to sending them in (marriage and first-year in college... )

So sorry for all the questions, but I can't seem to find any answers anywhere. My breeder, who lives in Iowa, sometimes takes a good while to respond to my emails because he's so busy. Thanks so much !!!

Unfortunately, you picked a breed that they consider a BIG "Handler breed", meaning it is hard to win with a owner handled dog. BUt, it CAN be done.

To show you only need him registered with AKC.

Do you have any training clubs near you? Breed clubs?

I would search for handling classes as well.

BTW, I am up in the northwestern corner of Ohio. Perhaps once you get this show stuff figured out we will see eachother at shows!

Ask a breeder about him.

Owner/handling can be done but it's hard. I am currently in the dobe ring wich is also a handler ring. A pro handler can cost you anywere from $70/day to about $200 depending on the shows. I would say $150 for a 3 day show in show fees.

You have to have full AKC regestration and your dog must be intact, unless you find a show that has a altered class and those are next to imposible to find. If you want to finish you will have to travel.

Find a mentor. Go to shows with a breeder of your breed, fallow them around ask questions. They will get you started in the right direction.

And handlin classes are a godsend

You can either show him yourself or have someone handle him for you, Jenn's prices seemed about right from what I've seen.

Troy is a really nice little guy. How old is he? I didn't get a chance to really study him (webshots always dies on me) but I did get the chance to make a quick observation.

He has a rather funky front, something a lot of Papillons have - slightly crooked legs and feet that turn out at the pastern. It doesn't look too bad though and in my experience most Paps have this to a certain extent - a bit of creative grooming will neaten it right up. This may be faulted in the ring but I have seen fronts far worse going unnoticed.

He has a STUNNING head and expression. Very nice ear set, good fringing so far. He has a lovely body shape and gorgeous fine bone, along with absolutely perfect hare feet.

If you're hoping to show him, I'd start taking measures now to help him grow coat, because he won't do much in the ring with what little he has now. I may be assuming he is older than he really is though, so his coat length may just be due to his age. In any case, take very good care of his coat, prevent split ends, NEVER use harsh brushes like slickers on his coat (especially his ear fringe) and never brush a wet coat unless you are doing so very gently with conditioner and a soft pin brush. At all costs, prevent the hair on the ears from "bunching up" at the base, because this will restrict growth. Just comb the ears a couple times a day to make sure the hair is loose and free of tangles.

He has gorgeous markings and despite not having a symmetrical blaze, his face still screams "butterfly". Extremely typey little dog! Good luck with him.

Yup, What RD said. I know NOTHING about paps, so I cant help you there.

I really really suggest finding a montor in a pap breeder. Dan realy has saved my life as far as shows are concerned

Thanks so much for all the lovely comments on him! Except for his coat which could be fuller, I think so far he's turned into a lovely dog.

Yes, he does toe-out a little in the front, but like one poster said, I've seen some pictures of CH's before with the same problem, so I'm hoping it can be overlooked for the most part. It could be the angle, but I've even seen some pics where they look to toe-in, hmm.

He just turned 1 year in March. The hair coat was his breeders biggest concern. His mother was very correct physically, but did not have the proper hair coat. Thankfully, Troy still has more than her. His sire, CH. Caratoot's Count Christopher, has an amazing hair coat. The Caratoot line is also connected to the Silenzio line who also have more than ample coats. So I hoping with age, it will come, since I've heard they don't get their full show coat until 2 years of age.

As for the handler issue, I won't be handling him myself, but will have a friend do it for me who showed as a Junior handler for quite sometime before going to college.

His personality is also an issue I'm worried about. He's kinda shy and timid, but still certainly friendly, though he does seem confused/startled by little kids. I moved here for college so I don't have many friends/family to expose him to. I'm hoping he will still be able to be shown with his personality.

He is intact, you better believe it for as much as he cost!! His breeder seemed slightly reluctant to sell him to me...he seemed like he wanted to keep him for himself, which I'm hoping was a good sign...

Anymore comments/critiques/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Thats not a good reason to keep him intact.

You REALLY need to get him over the shy and timid. A judge is NOT going to like it if the dog shy's away when he/she gooes to touch him

Oh, he's just a baby! His coat will be fine, I think. For some reason I thought he was older and that you had purchased him as an adolescent/adult.

I have found that for the most part, there are two kinds of Papillons: the gregarious, tail-waving, smiling, outgoing ones and the reserved, slightly less flashy ones. The reserved dogs do not do well in the show ring, so I would work ASAP on his attitude. Praise him for friendliness, praise him when he holds his head up high around other people. If you clicker train, click/treat for moments when he's greeting someone with his ears up and his tail wagging.

Who is his breeder, by the way? I have a friend with Paps who lives in Iowa.

Shy timid dogs do not do well in the ring.

Your dog is at a disadvantage from the get go because he lacks the white blaze in the center of the head that accentuates the "butterfly" look to the ears.

Puppies are not show quality.

They are show PROSPECTS.

Your best course of action is to join the National Breed Club for the Papillon, and speak to others who are SUCCESSFULLY showing their dogs.

Ask for the real scoop on your dog, good or bad.

Even if he would be hard to finish, he may be a great dog for you to learn on. Join a local club, go to handling classes, enter, and show him.

You gotta start somewhere.

Paps also do quite well in obedience and agility, so you might have a lot of fun doing those things with him as well.

VERY VERY TRUE!!!

Riot used to shy away from strangers touching hime or growl etc.. I had worked with him and a professional belgian handler and hes finally gotten over that. During the time of working with him though we entered him into a Sanction Match.
The Judge LOVED HIM to death and really wanted to place him, but he took second b/c the winning dog was "showy" and loved strangers lol

Definately get the shyness worked with or you wont have a good show dog.

I don't know anything about Paps, so I can't comment on his conformation, but he is cute! Your best bet would be to find a mentor in the breed or velcro yourself to a decent handler.

Oddly enough, I used to live in Lima, OH...this was YEARS ago though.

In a recent Show the judge told dan she would have given Laya winner's bitch over this other dog but sheshyed away for a second. Even though she was way nicer (acording to the judge) she didnt win because of one little shy.

The comment about his being intact and his price was said in a half-joking manner. He will stay intact during the time I attempt to show him. If it turns out he just simply isn't good at showing due to his personality or can't be placed, then he will most likely be neutuerd (sp?).

Good news about the shy thing! We've recently took them out on some long walks around the city and Troy did really well, even will cars zooming by him. If I was as small as him, I would have freaked out, but then again I'm already kind of scared of cars as it is

We also took him to the pet supply store and let a few kids come and pet him. He did really well and gave them kisses all over; however, he isn't really the tail wagging type...? His tail never goes between his legs, but he rarely ever wags it, even at home. My other pap, Jaidyn, is the polar opposite and borders or the need for Ritalin!! I usually have to hold him down to let others pet him because he goes crazy! He's good for Troy though too and I think has certainly helped him be more outgoing. The only thing he's still not sure about is being approached too quickly. With enough work and exposure to new people and things, I think we can hopefully overcome his shyness.

We will hopefully be going to our first kennel club meeting on the last Tuesday of this month. I'm not sure if we'll participate in the conformation class right away or simply watch it. I want to see how Troy handles it. I'm hoping my husband can get his hours changed so we can make it for the class...{figers crossed}

Thanks for your help/suggestions so far!

Oh yeah, is breeder is Forrest Johnson of Zelicaon Papillons.