Playing a little too rough - should I get in the middle?

Hi everyone,

Well I think we have Koda's barking problem under control - I got him a bigger kennel, which has helped, and I ordered the knuckle bones online (thanks for the advice here). In the meantime I've been freezing canned dog food in the Kong and that keeps him pretty busy.

My new question is - Koda and Casper love to play, but sometimes Koda gets a little rough. He's bitten down pretty hard on Casper, usually on his ears or a hind leg. He's caused Casper to yelp and run away on more than one occasion. I've never seen Casper react like that, so it must hurt. I've been reluctant to get in the middle of them, thinking they would work it out for themselves, and also I wouldn't know what to do if I did. Once or twice I yelled 'no' at Koda when I thought he was hurting Casper.

Should I get in the middle, and if so, what should I do? Casper loves to play but would never hurt a flea (literally) and is very gentle, so no chance of him sticking up for himself.

Well, I'd try to interfere iby stepping in the middle when ythe other one bites down to hard for both dogs. I have a question for you, though. Which one's the boss over the other one?

If you don't like it when the one gets too rough, it's your house, they're your dogs and you get to make the rules. One doesn't get to decide something like that. If the one dog's yelp isn't enough to teach the other, then you can step in and tell him to knock it off. (I've taught my Doberman the word, "gentle." You can show your dog that you like it when he plays gently and reward him for that. You can give an alternative thing to chew on or to do. I don't believe in letting dogs work things out when one is getting hurt, even though they may be able to do it themselves. They need to know that you are their leader and you make the rules.

I always interfere when Addie is getting too rough. I can tell because she has a certain growl that I know means she is getting angry. she is the boss of the two, but as Doberluv said...I am the boss of her. letting them work it out on their own could be asking for a trip to the vet for stitches or worse.

I really am posting here because your dogs are toooo cute. love Casper (I'm assuming he's the white one?) that little face is adorable!!!

Yes Casper is the white one. He's an awesome pup!! I have started stepping in when Koda gets too rough, pushing him to the ground and yelling 'no' (I was told that the pack leader will pin a rambunctious pup to the ground and growl at him). He just doesn't get it, though. He's still rough, and will steal any toy Casper picks up.

I've had a lot of dogs in my life but this one is proving to be very difficult. He also pees in his cage - he doesn't have anything in there except his bones, so this perplexes me. He doesn't seem to mind laying in it. He gets walked regularly, exercised, etc. so that's not the problem. Anybody have any ideas about that?

Do they both think they're alpha over the other onne? If so I would either permanently separate them or I would let them just fight it out o=r flip them over. I'd also concider rehoming one of them if they both want to be alpha. It really seems like you have two dogs who want to be alpha and just won't back down no matter what the other one or you do, so they'lll need to work it out or be separated I think. Good luck.

Hannah

First of all, never "alpha roll" your dog or yell at him. Neither of these things does a leader make. You can do your own research if you want to but wolves and dogs do not do this to another unless they're going to kill it. You are not only risking a serious bite, but you're damaging your relationship with your dog by doing this. Alphas or leaders do not get physical or loud. In fact, dogs don't communicate with a whole lot of vocalizations. It's mostly body language, posturing, looks etc. It makes you look out of control to yell and get physical. If you want to stand inbetween them and sort of slowly herd one over, that's one thing, but to force a dog on it's back is not the way to go about this.

You say they're playing, right? Are you sure it's play? It seems that the one is getting too rough, so he has to learn to settle down. Teach him an alternative behavior which he can be rewarded for and interrupt the undesireable behavior. Or prevent it by seperating them. If what your other dog is doing (going away, crying) is not enough to get the message across to the overly rough dog, then you can step in and tell him, "no" and steer him away and onto something else.

I would also work with each dog seperately, one on one....a walk, some obedience practice. This way they not only get brain work and something else to do, they look up to you as their leader.

Remember, getting emotional, physically rough or loud will make you look like an equal or a subordinate, not a leader.

Oh! And don't forget lots and lots of running exercise...fetch or something to tire them out. Then they won't have as much energy for rough playing at other times. I'd give them each seperate time for that. Good luck.

It's definately just play, just a lot of hopping around and chasing, and then it progresses when they start playing "king of the dog bed" (even though there's three dog beds, one dog will hunker down in one while the other tries to evict him).

It's amazing how different advice can be, as another forum told me to pin him down and here it's a big no-no. That's okay, I've been trying another method. I leave his leash on when they are playing and when he gets too rough I grab the end of the lead and give a correction. Then I immediately ask him to sit, lay down, etc. and praise. After a few minutes I drop the lead again. I could see him now when he grabs Casper too hard he will immediately let go and look up at me like "Oops, that was too hard wasn't it?" so I think he knows now what he's doing wrong. I could be completely off base but it seemed to help today. It's going to be a long road with this dog -but I'm sure it will all work out. Thank you everyone here for your support!!! I'm sure I'll be posting more questions in the future!!

There definitely is a lot of advice out there. I think all you can do is read as much as possible and think about how you want to communicate with your dog. This is a very positive reinforcement oriented forum (say that twice!) so you will get a lot of advice along those lines although it will still vary.

My thoughts are that you should use a time out. Find your dog a safe place for the time out. The bathroom or some other room that's not easy to destroy. NOT the crate or wherever he sleeps. That should not be punishment. When he gets too rough or out of line just walk him without saying anything to his time out room and put him in there. Leave him in there for just a couple of minutes and if he is quiet let him out. If he isn't quiet wait until he's been quiet for about a minute.

Isolation can get through to a dog faster then a lot of other methods. Most other ways you are still giving your dog attention even if it is negative (yelling, hitting, glaring lol...) but dogs are pack animals and isolating them from the pack really makes them straighten up.

two of my dogs were always fighting. And I do mean fighting. I used this method on the dominant dog and it really, really helped. Within days.

Just soemthign to think about.

Dober... I've seen you put down the alpha roll before. Out of curiousity , as I always did this with my pups from day one and passed it on to their new owners if they had any behavioral problems, why are you against it IF they know it's a time out issue ?? All of my pups left the nest without a struggle to the AR . To all now, why wouldn't a one time free for all... work it out boys... not be the best ( without blood of course ) Won't they always try to be Alpha until one becomes king ??? I've never had this problem , I must add.

Mikey and Nanook will never totally work it out Grammy. There is tooo much stubborness between them. Nanook always wins but Mikey keeps going back. I control it using time outs on Nanook (or Mikey if he instigates) and it rarely, rarely happens anymore. Something has to upset the dynamic (like the new pup). I'd never alpha roll either.

Grammy....here's one link for you that explains what I believe.

http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/Training/alpha-roll_no.htm

Rolling a puppy on his back for the purpose of temperament testing or in play, a belly rub is not the same thing as rolling a dog over as punishment with a demeanor of anger. I am very against showing that type of dominance over a dog and putting him on the defensive. Not only is it dangerous, it undermines the relationship between dog and owner. IMO.

I agree with Saje with the social isolation....a very good deterrant for a social animal. Get too rough? End of playtime with your buddy.LOL

With my Doberman (when he was a pup) and my Chihuahuas, I physically showed him what I meant by gentle. I got down on the floor and showed him and praised him when he was being careful. That was the route I took because he clearly had no clue that he was rough with his paws. Now I don't have to worry about them together at all. He's completely wonderful with them.

Bump up for Grammy. I wanted you to get a chance to read the answer to your question and to see that link.