BYB in Denial
- Thread starter lakotasong
- Start date
Let's have a little chat about ridiculous and rude.
Last time I checked SHIBAS are not required to wear DRESSES AND BOWS to compete in conformation competition.
In fact...last time I checked NO dogs were required to wear dresses and bows to compete.
Poodles are shaved as such because it's a nod to their history. The breed is German, with the origin of their name being "Pudel" (roughly translated as "puddle.") They are water retrievers. Coat was left on the chest, hips, head and ankle joints to keep these most significant areas warm. (Heat escapes INCREDIBLY quickly from the chest and head- as a distance runner braving all sorts of weather you BET I know this to be fact. On cold days coach advises me to wear a hat and a long-sleeve t-shirt). It's no mistake that the original WORKING Poodle breeders kept hair in these areas. To ignore doing so would mean hypothermia. And I assume we can all agree that a dead dog is a useless dog?
But imagine how hindered the dog would be if he were to keep hair ALL over his body? It would drag him down. So the breeders shaved down the hair in areas that weren't essential to protect.
As far as those high topknots- they allowed the hunter to see the dog at all times when in the water- you can't very well miss a dog with a topknot like that.
Now of course it's more stylized- we have the French to thank for that.
But if you think that dogs can't perform their original function PURELY because of a haircut, well you would be dead wrong. I know several people in Poodles who have worked their dogs SUCCESFULLY in full blown show coat.
Furthermore...Poodles never have bows in their topknots during competition. Perhaps you were thinking of Maltese or Yorkies?
I have to ask, have you ever BEEN to a dog show?
Judging from your approximation...probably not. Once again...if you haven't a flaming clue what you're talking about, it's best to say nothing. What you are describing sounds a lot more like a PET PARADE. Which is very different.
My dogs go into the ring as they are. It is against the rules (and the very nature of my BREED) to so much as trim a WHISKER. So I don't.
Beyond conformation, my dogs are trained in agility, and after I finish up undergrad in a year, will begin tracking.
They're already fabulous hunters- the dead birds, opossum, and rodents in my backyard are testament to that.
Get the REAL facts before you besmirch the hard work of other people.
And by the way...what do you possibly mean by "reap the rewards?"
You couldn't possibly mean money, could you?
We pay to ENTER dog shows. You certainly don't earn any money by winning. And good breeders are lucky to break EVEN.
OFA, CERF, bloodwork, STD testing, show entries, proper diets, stud fees, care of pregnant bitches, and the sheer amount of TIME we spend with each puppy ENSURES that we make nothing.
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If you think people who show their dogs are cackling and rubbing their hands together over piles of money they get from selling their "valuable puppies", you're wrong. After all the testing (OFA, CERF, etc), vet trips, and possibly vet care if the mother or pups need it, PLUS all the man hours involved in caring for and socializing the puppies, PLUS the costs of showing to begin with, these breeders are not raking in the cash. They're probably losing money. If they're extremely lucky, they're breaking even.
I get the impression, from your posts, that you think that people here look down on any dog who isn't a champion show dog. Not true! My own beloved dog was a mutt (some kind of labrador mix) from the local animal shelter and she was the light of my life. (Sadly she passed away earlier this year at the ripe old age of fourteen.) She had a great termperament and was smart as a whip.
But I would never have bred her because plenty of wonderful, intelligent dogs--both mutts and purebreds--die in animal shelters every day. To be worthy of breeding, an animal should be SPECTACULAR, not just "really smart", "really cute", or "a really unusual color." And to PROVE that it's spectacular, the dog should be shown in the ring.
That doesn't mean non-show-dogs don't make great pets; it just means they make great pets that shouldn't be bred.
I get the impression, from your posts, that you think that people here look down on any dog who isn't a champion show dog. Not true! My own beloved dog was a mutt (some kind of labrador mix) from the local animal shelter and she was the light of my life. (Sadly she passed away earlier this year at the ripe old age of fourteen.) She had a great termperament and was smart as a whip.
But I would never have bred her because plenty of wonderful, intelligent dogs--both mutts and purebreds--die in animal shelters every day. To be worthy of breeding, an animal should be SPECTACULAR, not just "really smart", "really cute", or "a really unusual color." And to PROVE that it's spectacular, the dog should be shown in the ring.
That doesn't mean non-show-dogs don't make great pets; it just means they make great pets that shouldn't be bred.
LOL Grammy, I thought the SAME thing when I saw this starting up again.
Do people just not READ anymore?
I missed the part where all of us who bred dogs for conformation were talking about the pretty dresses we bought our bitches for the "evening wear" competition.
You should really see my Kimi's bikini for the swimsuit competition. She looks stunning.
Do people just not READ anymore?
I missed the part where all of us who bred dogs for conformation were talking about the pretty dresses we bought our bitches for the "evening wear" competition.
You should really see my Kimi's bikini for the swimsuit competition. She looks stunning.
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Now Tempura- I have to say that a nice powder blue would be much more complementary to her coat. Possibly with a little understated jewelry in the ears. A french mani would be a nice finishing touch. After all, it wouldn't do to have her not win because she was underdressed!
My poor dogs are not purebred and must content themselves with being nudist heathens.
My poor dogs are not purebred and must content themselves with being nudist heathens.
C
Byb
Well I must say I can not beleive the attitudes of some people. How can you justify yourselves when just breeding for money. There is so much more to it than that. Sure you want good temps on your dogs but you need to secure other areas as well.
Our daughter is in the Special Olympic's she is doing wonderful due to the coach a very good freind of ours. The Sergent has really taken a great interest in our girl and she has gone all the way to Brandon Manitoba and Came home with Golds Silvers and Bronse medles. We are waiting for the results to see if she and her coach are going to China.
So what I did was go out and buy a Yorky Poo from a breeder here. Well go figure this dog had the lextatingpatila, bad hips and a jaw that need repaired. WoW what a mess. Well guess what The boss and his wife are totally in love with the dog named Tiny. Did I approach the breeder oh you know I did. She needs a swift kick and we all know where. So no there is a lot more to breeding than just playing games like these BYB are doing.
Well I must say I can not beleive the attitudes of some people. How can you justify yourselves when just breeding for money. There is so much more to it than that. Sure you want good temps on your dogs but you need to secure other areas as well.
Our daughter is in the Special Olympic's she is doing wonderful due to the coach a very good freind of ours. The Sergent has really taken a great interest in our girl and she has gone all the way to Brandon Manitoba and Came home with Golds Silvers and Bronse medles. We are waiting for the results to see if she and her coach are going to China.
So what I did was go out and buy a Yorky Poo from a breeder here. Well go figure this dog had the lextatingpatila, bad hips and a jaw that need repaired. WoW what a mess. Well guess what The boss and his wife are totally in love with the dog named Tiny. Did I approach the breeder oh you know I did. She needs a swift kick and we all know where. So no there is a lot more to breeding than just playing games like these BYB are doing.
Ha ha ha ha... I'd love to see someone try to 'manhandle' a Neo. Remember the business end has teeth!
Seriously, we show our dogs to prove to ourselves that they are correct for their breed, whether we are interested in breeding or not. It is a matter of pride in your dog and the breed which it represents. There are many champions which are never bred from. I really don't see your point either when you talk about the difference between show and pet quality. This is a decision you make before you aquire a dog and you should really try to understand that each person has his own reasons for which of the two they want. As to the manner in which show dogs are kept; All my friends want to come back in their next lives as one of my dogs! Pampered pooches, every one of them.
Gillian
Seriously, we show our dogs to prove to ourselves that they are correct for their breed, whether we are interested in breeding or not. It is a matter of pride in your dog and the breed which it represents. There are many champions which are never bred from. I really don't see your point either when you talk about the difference between show and pet quality. This is a decision you make before you aquire a dog and you should really try to understand that each person has his own reasons for which of the two they want. As to the manner in which show dogs are kept; All my friends want to come back in their next lives as one of my dogs! Pampered pooches, every one of them.
Gillian
Basic idea of profits that us breeders are "supposed" to make from breeding a litter, the following does NOT include the campaigning of my dogs which is a great expence, but as it is my hobby I have not included it in.
Cost of breeding my litter,
Willows health checks, hips xrays and sending to be examined approx £100
general anesthesic £50
Eyes tested £25
Stud fee £800
So before even breeding costs are already £975
After mating.
Scan £40
Litter box made for me wood materials and labour £100
Heatlamp £30
Vetcheck £30
Suppliments £30
Cal D £40
Puppy formula for Willow few tubs @ £22 £66
Puppies now born. X6
Vet check £30
Vaccinations (total course) £42 each £252.00 and worming for 6 £300 inc vacc
Microbotic for whn pups got bad runs including vet check £62
KC registrations X 6 approx £90
Pedigrees printed (on the cheap by friend) £30
Food for Willow and pups willow fed them til they were 6 weeks
I kept them til they were 12 weeks £60
Vet bed bought full roll so there was some for each pup to take home £180
Toys and sundries easily £100
Puppy packs including 1 months supply of frozen meat/toys/bedding
Printed history of their lines including photographs/training books/leads
Collar/bowls all good quality. supply of worming tablets/supplements/
Etc and much more lets say £75 each max £450
Total out going £2,643
Sold 4 puppies kept 2 puppies sold at 850 each so 4 x 850 = £3,400
Total income at this point £757
Less refunds to each puppy on neutering and speying as per my contract
And on production of proof from vet (all done now) 4 x 100 £400
less gift vouchers towards trainingschool 4x£20 £80
Total profit from breeding a litter £277
so from breeding this litter, and after sleeping downstairs with mum and pups for 12 weeks my “income” was £33.24 per week, that’s not including taking out for many sundries that I have not included. I class myself as a reputable breeder, I don’t pump out litters every year nor do I breed more than once a year,
Mo
Cost of breeding my litter,
Willows health checks, hips xrays and sending to be examined approx £100
general anesthesic £50
Eyes tested £25
Stud fee £800
So before even breeding costs are already £975
After mating.
Scan £40
Litter box made for me wood materials and labour £100
Heatlamp £30
Vetcheck £30
Suppliments £30
Cal D £40
Puppy formula for Willow few tubs @ £22 £66
Puppies now born. X6
Vet check £30
Vaccinations (total course) £42 each £252.00 and worming for 6 £300 inc vacc
Microbotic for whn pups got bad runs including vet check £62
KC registrations X 6 approx £90
Pedigrees printed (on the cheap by friend) £30
Food for Willow and pups willow fed them til they were 6 weeks
I kept them til they were 12 weeks £60
Vet bed bought full roll so there was some for each pup to take home £180
Toys and sundries easily £100
Puppy packs including 1 months supply of frozen meat/toys/bedding
Printed history of their lines including photographs/training books/leads
Collar/bowls all good quality. supply of worming tablets/supplements/
Etc and much more lets say £75 each max £450
Total out going £2,643
Sold 4 puppies kept 2 puppies sold at 850 each so 4 x 850 = £3,400
Total income at this point £757
Less refunds to each puppy on neutering and speying as per my contract
And on production of proof from vet (all done now) 4 x 100 £400
less gift vouchers towards trainingschool 4x£20 £80
Total profit from breeding a litter £277
so from breeding this litter, and after sleeping downstairs with mum and pups for 12 weeks my “income” was £33.24 per week, that’s not including taking out for many sundries that I have not included. I class myself as a reputable breeder, I don’t pump out litters every year nor do I breed more than once a year,
Mo
Not all dogs shown live the life of a full time show dog.
My dogs work in a pack with livestock all week and 5-10 weekends a year out of 52 we show them .
They do NOT live in crates and BTU they love the crate dens they have at home when I hand out bones outside or inside they look for a crate dog house or a den they dug.
Purebred dogs need to be evaluted to the standard as long as the standard is still in my opinion a working standard NOT changed for the show ring..
They need to he health certified , temperament tested and WORKED.
To qualify for a breeding - it took me 6 years to finish my foundation bitch and many SHOW breeders wont breed until they have champions.
I take them out to showcase my dogs abilties and my own ability to properly handled this breed in public...
Not everything is black and white show dogs vs working dogs .
I believe in total dogs which is why we will NEVER go AKC and stick with UKC..
Also in many backyard breeders cases the excuse they do not show at all is because A they can not afford it it cuts into the bottom profit margin and B they dont know how to do it so it is better to attack the system then to become part of it.
My dog shows cost 300-500 hundred dollars per weekend, and I only breed 1 or 2 small litters a year - Do the math.
Now If i stayed at home and did not show, did not test for health or temperament I would be making about 10,000 grand a year,,
This winter i need to spay one retired bitch age 6 , one dog failed for breeding and one rescue that is 1,000, i have to penn hip a new female that is another 300 and i need collect 3 males 400 X 3...
Ive done 8 shows this year so far, Plus old dog care is about 300 per dog to get them cleared at age 9 + got to do 2 a year..
This does not include supplies, registrations, dog food, vet bills, vaccines, avid chips, advertising, websites, domains, etc.
So the person who shows iS not allways the this big bad person trying to
'steal : the market from backyard breeders.
It is some cases it is someone who takes on challenges and wishes to raise the bar of their breeding vs skimming under it.
JD
My dogs work in a pack with livestock all week and 5-10 weekends a year out of 52 we show them .
They do NOT live in crates and BTU they love the crate dens they have at home when I hand out bones outside or inside they look for a crate dog house or a den they dug.
Purebred dogs need to be evaluted to the standard as long as the standard is still in my opinion a working standard NOT changed for the show ring..
They need to he health certified , temperament tested and WORKED.
To qualify for a breeding - it took me 6 years to finish my foundation bitch and many SHOW breeders wont breed until they have champions.
I take them out to showcase my dogs abilties and my own ability to properly handled this breed in public...
Not everything is black and white show dogs vs working dogs .
I believe in total dogs which is why we will NEVER go AKC and stick with UKC..
Also in many backyard breeders cases the excuse they do not show at all is because A they can not afford it it cuts into the bottom profit margin and B they dont know how to do it so it is better to attack the system then to become part of it.
My dog shows cost 300-500 hundred dollars per weekend, and I only breed 1 or 2 small litters a year - Do the math.
Now If i stayed at home and did not show, did not test for health or temperament I would be making about 10,000 grand a year,,
This winter i need to spay one retired bitch age 6 , one dog failed for breeding and one rescue that is 1,000, i have to penn hip a new female that is another 300 and i need collect 3 males 400 X 3...
Ive done 8 shows this year so far, Plus old dog care is about 300 per dog to get them cleared at age 9 + got to do 2 a year..
This does not include supplies, registrations, dog food, vet bills, vaccines, avid chips, advertising, websites, domains, etc.
So the person who shows iS not allways the this big bad person trying to
'steal : the market from backyard breeders.
It is some cases it is someone who takes on challenges and wishes to raise the bar of their breeding vs skimming under it.
JD