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  #1  
Old 01-11-2008, 06:32 PM
BRTLover
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I will start my own thread!

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At present, the strongest link to contributing factors other than genetic predisposition appears to be to rapid growth and weight gain. In a recent study done in Labrador retrievers a significant reduction in the development of clinical hip dysplasia occurred in a group of puppies fed 25% less than a control group which was allowed to eat free choice. It is likely that the laxity in the hip joints is aggravated by the rapid weight gain.

If feeding practices are altered to reduce hip dysplasia in a litter of puppies, it is probably best to use a puppy food and feed smaller quantities than to switch to an adult dog food. The calcium/phosphorous to calorie ratios in adult dog food are such that the puppy will usually end up with higher than desired total calcium or phosphorous intake by eating an adult food. This occurs because more of these foods are necessary to meet the caloric needs of puppies, even when feeding to keep the puppy thin.
http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/dehipdysp.html

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When any dog has a hip dislocated, if it is not repaired within 48 hours, the socket begins to lose depth. When an injury occurs to a rear leg, whether it be a toe injury, a stifle injury, a soft tissue injury, or a hip injury, the result is often a decreased amount of weight bearing on that leg over a period of days to weeks or months. When this happens, the mechanical forces applied to the living bone tissue change, and the hips become asymmetrical, the injured hip becoming shallower in a similar fashion.

The conclusion from these observations is that the single most important environmental factor in a puppy's life is exercise, continuous and strenuous. Since this is often impossible for owners to arrange, the next considerations are to drastically restrict the diet of the growing puppy and to avoid strenuous exercise which will exhaust his muscles and leave him unable to protect his joints from injury. The puppy should be given frequent moderate exercise instead. This requires a different kind of time commitment from the owner.
http://www.showdogsupersite.com/hips.html

From what I have just be reading it seems the common thoughts are that HD might be mostly genetically predisposed but environment causes certainly have a whole lot to do with the outcome.

So my personal thoughts are that most people believe if a dog/puppy has hip problems it is immediately genetic and never there fault.

However most people do not realise that they are indeed in most case but not all; setting puppy/doggy up for these problems by improper feeding; improper exercise; improper housing!

Best thing a breeder can do is OFA, OVC or Penn Hip {or equivalent too} all breeding stock before even thinking about using them for breeding.
Best thing an owner can do is research research research!

My best friend has a 6 month old german shepherd with severe HD! She was fed and exercised properly. The parents and all through the pedigree are good or better. The vet thought perhaps puppy had been hit by a car or in some sort of accident to cause this problem!
If it is genetic and this is an honest question I would like the answer too: because BRTs are very prone to HD as well due to size:
If it is genetic where did this puppy get it from.

Father?
Mother?

Because if it was genetic then a car accident would not be the answer! The car accident might have brought it out but to be genetic it must have been an underlying issue before the accident!

Does this make sense?

It does to me but I know what I am trying to say!


I am strictly trying to learn so if something here is wrong or I have read something wrong please let me know.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2008, 08:27 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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Do a little research on polygenic traits and their mode of inheritance.

Normal parents, grand parents, great grandparents, does not mean HD cannot occur.

If we completely understood the mode of inheritance, expression, and penetrance we could ELIMINATE this disease.

Until then, the best we can do is put together pedigrees that have the greatest depth and breadth of normal dogs possible, and exclude from breeding all abnormal individuals.
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2008, 09:22 AM
Boreayl_Chinooks Boreayl_Chinooks is offline
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IMO, looking at pedigrees of parents, grandparents, etc., is a good start when considering a puppy, but it's important to remember most reputable breeders will only breed passing animals. The very best breeders will also assure that there is depth of pedigree. It's entirely possible that OFA "Good" or better parents and grandparents were from litters which included dysplastic siblings which would have increased the chance of them being carriers themselves. It's also possible the owners of some of these ancestors followed restrictive feeding protocols that only mask a genetic predisposition. Most experts recommend looking at not only dogs in a pedigree but brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc. Is the pedigree one in which many of the ancestor's siblings were also tested? What ratings did they recieve? What is the nearest affected relative? OFA goes as far to state that an OFA "Fair" from a good family is a better breeding prospect than an OFA "Excellent" from a weak family: http://www.offa.org/hipguide.html

So, which might be the better litter to acquire a puppy from?

Litter 1: OFA Excellent x OFA Excellent. Sire's siblings were 1 Good 1 Fair 2 mildly dysplastic and 1 severely dysplastic. Dam's siblings are 1 Excellent 1 Good and 2 mildly dysplastic.

Litter 2: OFA Fair x OFA Good. Sire's siblings are 1 Excellent and 3 Good. Dam's siblings are 3 Good and 2 Fair.

As a breeder looking for a show pup with potential to contribute to the next generation, if hips were the *only* thing I was looking at, I would pick a pup from Litter 2. However, it's rarely that simple! What if we were dealing with a very rare breed without many breeding choices? What if the breeder of Litter 1 had a much lower than average risk of several other serious defects common for the breed? And what if Litter 2 had a family with poor conformation and/or temperament history?

So, considering the above, it would be hard to criticize either hypothetical litter or your friend's breeder without knowing his/her knowledge of pedigrees and the all variables they were working with. The unfortunate truth is, if one has been breeding long enough, a health problem is bound to crop up at one time or another in spite of the best knowledge, planning, and intentions. My opinion of the vet is less open minded - I would recommend that he becomes more knowledgable about genetics before giving opinions. What if this information were given to an inexperienced owner looking for an excuse to have a litter (and I'm not suggesting this is the case with your friend)? This is one of my peeves because I've seen it happen too many times with newbies in one of my breeds and in some cases it's resulted in 3 generations of veterinarian diagnosed "non-genetic" seizures. Is there such a thing as inherited "non-genetic" seizures!? I doubt it! I would also doubt it in the case of most hip dysplasias.

One final thing - if your friend hasn't already, it would be a good idea to inform the breeder of the problem as soon as possible. If he/she is worth salt, they will want to know and genuinely appreciate information.

Debbie
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2008, 10:57 AM
RedyreRottweilers
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Just wanted to say EXCELLENT POST, Debbie.

Breeding decisions for responsible breeders are rarely cut and dried. There are many variables and pros and cons that must be considered.

Then one pays ones money and takes ones chances.

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  #5  
Old 01-12-2008, 12:47 PM
BRTLover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreayl_Chinooks
What if this information were given to an inexperienced owner looking for an excuse to have a litter (and I'm not suggesting this is the case with your friend)?
Breeding is the last thing on my friends mind. Her dog has no registeration papers because the breeder did not bother to transfer the dam over to CKC she is still AKC.

Quote:
One final thing - if your friend hasn't already, it would be a good idea to inform the breeder of the problem as soon as possible. If he/she is worth salt, they will want to know and genuinely appreciate information.

Debbie

She did tell the breeder and sent a copy of the vet report to her. She did not care and her only comment was
" I sold the dog to you as a pet; with no guarantee at the price of $400; what did you expect?"

My friend was never planning to return the dog; nor did she want anything! She thought the breeder would like to know.

The dog is going to be spayed and she will live out her life as a family pet! That was the intention even before hip problems entered the equation.
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2008, 12:48 PM
BRTLover
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Thank you for the information.

That really made sense to me and I appreciate the knowledge.
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2008, 05:51 PM
Boreayl_Chinooks Boreayl_Chinooks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRTLover View Post
She did tell the breeder and sent a copy of the vet report to her. She did not care and her only comment was
" I sold the dog to you as a pet; with no guarantee at the price of $400; what did you expect?"
It doesn't sound like a very good breeder to me.

BTW, does BRT stand for Black Russian Terrier? If so, they look like a really cool breed.

Debbie
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2008, 08:15 PM
BRTLover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreayl_Chinooks View Post
It doesn't sound like a very good breeder to me.
You said it not me; but I do agree! I am not one to bad mouth anyone!

Quote:
BTW, does BRT stand for Black Russian Terrier? If so, they look like a really cool breed.

Debbie

Yes it does and they are very cool! I am still learning the basics but am very happy so far.
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