Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-11-2004, 05:00 AM
Apollonaro Apollonaro is offline
Big Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kingston Ontario
Posts: 123
Default

I totally agree with you Rips girl. They are just hiring anyone who walks in off the streets, but if you DO have the qualifications then chances are you won't get a job..

I've realised that all this psychotic behaviour started AS SOON as he got his neuter. That's when he started going to the bathroom inside the house as if he weren't house trained, that's when he started to nip people if he got too excited, before the operation if we played with him he would push us with his nose. that was his symbol of either "this is fun" or "i've had enough" but now he bites, and he's a little strong.... he's also developed his pulling habits twice as hard as before. My aunt's son really took a liking to him. He had to put his spring spaniel down not to long ago which he's had for something like 15-17 years. His old dog could READ paper, open cupboard doors and count. For real. It's incredible to see a dog read lol. I am starting to think that maybe i'm not experienced enough to try and get him out of this habit, and he needs someone with a little bit more experience becuase he's been in a bad family before obviously. I'm good at training puppies, but i can't seem to make an impression on apollo. now matter HOW much i yell at the pee stain on the wall. I love him with all my heart, but im wondering if maybe i should put him in the hands of someone that would be able to get him out of his habits. I want what's best for him, and i know that seeing us get frustrated (me and steve) Because of his sudden behavioral change must be hard on Apollo. I know that Bill would be able to give him a very strong education, not to mention he lives out in the country on a huge farm apollo would have a hay day. I'm starting to consider it and then waiting a while and maybe consider buying a puppy and start from scratch. Definately not right away.... What should i do? Should i spend alot of money on obedience and training and what-not that's not even 100% Guaranteed to help his problem? Or should i put him in the hands of someone who knows what to do.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-11-2004, 08:41 AM
Renee750il's Avatar
Renee750il Renee750il is offline
Felurian
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the selas blooms
Posts: 94,266
Default

Regardless of what your decision is with Apollo, I'm still going to suggest that you invest the money (relatively a small amount) in the Monks of New Skete training information. I've seen amazing results happen for people using it, and even if you do end up with a puppy, the knowledge you gain from it will make things so much easier.

If your nephew is genuinely attached to Apollo, it might be something to consider; just be sure, since it's so soon after losing his long-time companion, that it's permanent. Apollo doesn't need to be re-homed yet again, and I know it would break your heart to think of that happening to him. It's a tough decision. My best friend had to let Carter, her Cocker Spaniel, live with her sister. My friend had to move, and her new home has no fence, and there will be clients coming in and out, which would make Carter crazy since he's a little overprotective. I'd've taken him myself, but he'd just be coyote bait out here, not to mention he tries to fight with Bimmer . . .
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-11-2004, 09:00 PM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
treehugging clicker freak
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OH
Posts: 12,860
Default

Most puppies and some dogs experience a high level of anxiety when left alone. Most dogs gain confidence and get over this 'anxiety', but some dogs, for various reasons, do not gain confidence in themselves. Some dogs are left alone too long when they are puppies and they become traumatized by the event. Many canines are 'spoiled' when they're young and 'freak out' when they're older and the schedual changes. Other dogs are neglected or abused and therefore have a low self-esteem. These dogs can be bounced around from owner to owner and usually end up in an animal shelter. After they are adopted to well-meaning people they can still carry their low self-esteem and exhibit their learned behavior of separation anxiety. Other dogs for unknown reasons have a low tolerance for anxiety. Some say this is caused by genetics or horomones. And lastly, any dog can become traumatized unbeknownst to their "people" by some event and can spontaneously begin to experience separation anxiety.
All of these types of dogs can show profound anxiety when being left alone, or simply out of eye-sight of their "people." The process of teaching them self-confidence and the ability to entertain themselves can be time consuming and requires a lot of patience and positive reinforcement. Here's how to do it:
Begin by changing your "leaving" routine. Dogs that exhibit separation anxiety usually begin to get anxious long before you walk out the door. Most people have a set "leaving" routine that they go through before leaving the house. They put their shoes on, close the windows, lock the doors, jingle the car keys, etc. Dogs learn this routine very quickly and if they already get anxious from being left alone, this long, drawn out "leaving" routine can make matters worse.

When you leave the house, do so promptly. When you leave, say "Take care of the house." Don't make a big deal out of leaving, just start to teach them a phrase that means, "I'll be gone, but I'll be back." Then, when you leave, turn around and come back in after about 30 seconds to 1 minute. When you come home::: Say hello to your dog in a low-key manner and go about your day. You need to be low-key so that you teach your dog to be low-key! If you are overly anxious about leaving or coming home you will be conditioning your dog to be anxious as well.
A lot of people make the mistake of making the reunion (coming home after a days work or something) a huge deal. Apologizing, rejoicing, or greeting the dog animated-like is a bad idea. Let the dog outside and wait a couple minutes before petting your dog a lot (Low-Key!)
Dogs are social animals, and any dog that spends 8-10 hours a day, everyday all alone may begin to exhibit obsessive behaviors that may or may not develop into separation anxiety. A dog that experiences separation anxiety usually does his damage as soon as (or very shortly after) you leave the house. A dog that is bored and lonely will become destructive after a few hours (usually 4-6) of being left alone. If you feel your dog is bored, read "Obsessive Behaviors" for some ideas.
Another great confidence builder for dogs is any type of doggie or obediance classes. Even if the dog heeds your commands the socail interaction between you, other people and your dog benifit him greatly; as well as the leader position it gives you.

Here's a good starter link for crate training
Crate Training
Crate training dogs (over 6 months old) Often problem behaviors in this age group result from the pet feeling insecure when left alone

And a final note: I see dogs day in and day out that have 'seperation anxiety' problems. Most are juggled home to home because the owners think a new owner will somehow better handle the situation and be better for the dog and most are ultimitly put down. If you can't handle or can't un-train what your dog has trained you then what makes you think another person will? Lets face it: People are lazy. You see animal abuse/neglect everyday on TV I bet. The best person you can count on is yourself
They may think the same as you (someone else will be better for the dog), the dog will be juggled in and out of homes, the problem will worsen and theres a possibility he will be put down for his behaivior that can be stopped with a little work/training now.
(Not that I'm bashing you or your nephew or anything! )

****a lot of the seperation anxiety info was quoted/loosely quoted from http://www.doggiedoor.com/sepanx.shtml
__________________

Maddie CGC .:. Cocker Spaniel .:. 12 y/o
Bailey CGC .:. Shetland Sheepdog .:. 5 y/o

Last edited by Brattina88; 10-11-2004 at 09:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-11-2004, 10:54 PM
Apollonaro Apollonaro is offline
Big Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kingston Ontario
Posts: 123
Default

Thank you Brattina, that was very helpful to me. I've tried the leave alone tactic, it worked for a little while then he became very anxious again. Ever since his surgery, all his training and all the progress he's made since the adoption just went to poop! One upper is that we've started to get him to play with us, he acts liek he's enver been played with, he spins so fast in circles that he digs up the carpet LOL. Then he jumps wags his tail, licks you, then playfully bites your hand. He has around a 10 minute rule, "if ur not back in ten minutes im going to destroy the house". I do'nt want to get rid of him despite WHO likes him. He's my dog and me and my fiance are the ones that have invested our time and money into trying to make him happy. I know we've left an impint if he loves us enough to jump at our every move, tail wagging, tongue hanging out of mouth. It's just hard. I dont currently have a job so i'm here all the time nad he sucks and mopes around the house cuase his daddy is gone lol. he's never alone for more than 2 hours at a time. If even that! it's just starting to get out of control. Hey Renee, is that training "Monks of new skete" avaliable in pet stores or do i have to order it online?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-11-2004, 11:06 PM
Renee750il's Avatar
Renee750il Renee750il is offline
Felurian
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the selas blooms
Posts: 94,266
Default

I've seen it available in some bookstores, and if it's not in your pet store, they'd probably be glad to order it for you.

You sound like you're a little less discouraged now. I know you had to be at your wits' end to consider letting your nephew take Apollo.
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-12-2004, 12:28 PM
Apollonaro Apollonaro is offline
Big Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kingston Ontario
Posts: 123
Default

I think witts end was an understatement lol, i was too the bloody point where i would bite my fingernails looking at him with my hair in a mess trying to figure out what happened to him. I'm less discouraged now becuase he's not a dummy and he knows that when i said "I might have to take him to bill" He completely changed. Our basement smells like dog pee which means he's done it other times nad i haven't been able to catch it which ALSO means i've got to rent a carpet cleaner to get the odor out lol cause i've got no idea where the odor is coming from. I guess i'm less discouraged, honestly, because of you guys. You've helped me before with his little problems even though they were minor as opposed to this. I'm still a little confused as to why it all started happening when he got neutured but hey, only god knows that one. A big problem is the pulling, a close friend of mine lives in a basement of someone elses house, it's a duplex. And Apollo ran full tilt down the stairs, knocking steve off his balance who fell and hit a picture on the wall that ALSO fell (that belonged to the owners of the duplex) and unless it was for me and my cat-like reflexes the picture would have went smashy smashy. To control his pulling, do you think it is a good idea to maybe by a halti or something? he's got a strong neck, i just think he'd pull against it, i'd really like to find a way to stop his pulling. he won't pull with me because i pull back and give him the special word "Don't pull!" And he stops and walks along with me but as soon as steve grabs the leash, he's outta here lol
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-12-2004, 06:32 PM
RD's Avatar
RD RD is offline
Are you dead yet?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,483
Default

I'd say 'NOOOO' to the halti, personally. I have a halti for Dakota, and I use it only to help direct his attention towards ME, and to keep him from picking things up on the sidewalk.
Regardless of whether or not Apollo has a strong neck, a dog running to the end of a leash on a halti will hurt himself, because the halti turns the head back toward you. So, when he runs to the end of the leash, he will be swung around by his nose to face you again.
If I were to use any training collar on a strong dog that pulls, I would use a pinch collar. It won't press against his trachea like a flat collar or a check chain will, and it won't yank his neck around. You can actually be gentler on the dog with a pinch collar than you can with a check chain or flat collar.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-12-2004, 08:33 PM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
treehugging clicker freak
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OH
Posts: 12,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonaro
Thank you Brattina, that was very helpful to me. I've tried the leave alone tactic, it worked for a little while then he became very anxious again. Ever since his surgery, all his training and all the progress he's made since the adoption just went to poop! One upper is that we've started to get him to play with us, he acts liek he's enver been played with, he spins so fast in circles that he digs up the carpet LOL. Then he jumps wags his tail, licks you, then playfully bites your hand. He has around a 10 minute rule, "if ur not back in ten minutes im going to destroy the house". I do'nt want to get rid of him despite WHO likes him. He's my dog and me and my fiance are the ones that have invested our time and money into trying to make him happy. I know we've left an impint if he loves us enough to jump at our every move, tail wagging, tongue hanging out of mouth.
I'm glad I could help
What age was he when he got neutered? I've personally never had a problem with this sudden of a behavior change with the nuter, but that doesn't mean it never happens! Some dogs are sensitive to surgeries in general - I'd be a little curious about the vet and if he has different methods or something. Maybe your dog picked a great time to be in his 'terrible twos' (personally, working in a Day Care 3yr olds are 'worse' hahaha )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonaro
It's just hard. I dont currently have a job so i'm here all the time nad he sucks and mopes around the house cuase his daddy is gone lol. he's never alone for more than 2 hours at a time. If even that! it's just starting to get out of control. Hey Renee, is that training "Monks of new skete" avaliable in pet stores or do i have to order it online?
Raising dogs is harder than people think. I really hope that we can help you get through this and things work out for the best!
It sounds like him never being alone because you don't work is the problem. Not working can benefit you for the time being because you can wean your dog off of you; which needs to be done especially if a job is in your future!
Check your local library for that book. My library carries it, and they hardly have any books so there's a possibility yours can. That way you can check out it (nothings better than free!) and renew it (I do that online ALL the time) whenever you want. Great stuff, libraries...

Here's a plan I stole (again) off of the website I posted above:
The first day, you will leave and come back about a dozen times. Each time you leave, increase the time you are gone: 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 7 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, etc. Any time you come home and your dog was exhibiting his anxious behavior (chewing, barking, etc.) cut the time you leave in half next time. If he's still experiencing separation anxiety, cut your time in half again! Once your dog is no longer anxious, start increasing the times again.
Then repeat this again the following weekend, varying the time you are gone. Leave for 30 minutes, then for 5 minutes, then for 10 minutes, then for 2 hours, etc. Also, read "What to do with a Chewing Puppy" for some ideas about keeping your dog occupied with a Kong toy when you leave

-I've actually never heard of that book lol
__________________

Maddie CGC .:. Cocker Spaniel .:. 12 y/o
Bailey CGC .:. Shetland Sheepdog .:. 5 y/o
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-12-2004, 08:44 PM
Apollonaro Apollonaro is offline
Big Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kingston Ontario
Posts: 123
Default

he just got neutured this september, he's 1 and a half years old.

as for the pinch collar, im just scared to walk into a pet store and find someone that actually knows what they are. I've heard of them but i don't have enough friends that have dogs so i've never physically seen one or used one myself and with the education of the sales staff in this city. I think there should be a Chazhound store! Make it like a big ordeal, and only have the finest employees there are and make sure and give them a college worthy test about animals to make sure they even remotely qualify for a position in sales. That way i'd feel a little bit more confident going into a pet store lol. i'll go look at pinch chains tommorrow. I'm sure my friend Tamara can get me one, she's one of the few decent educated people who actually learned about animals further in college she took some preperatory course to learn abou tthem and now she works for 'pet paradise' So yeah!

I'll definately be back and forth to tell you more about what he does and what he's doing and what he's not doing anymore.
here's a new update already: Steve nad I just wen tot the store, and someone had locked apollo in the basement after we left. And we came back and there was no noise until we walked passed the door that's when he started to whine. and we went down and there was no pee or poopy on the floor and i did what i learned on here and just gave him a casual "Hello Apollo" and a little pet before i walked away from him. It was funny actually, he just sort of stood there and looked at me and cocked his head before following me down the stairs loll
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site