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  #81  
Old 06-27-2007, 11:59 AM
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Sunnierhawk0 Sunnierhawk0 is offline
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Awww Im a sweetie... how nice. I would appreicate it if you didnt talk condisending to me, because it just doesnt put you in a good light "sweetie".

I have nothing more to say about this thread, your arguments make me laugh and I have better things to do with my time.
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  #82  
Old 06-27-2007, 02:03 PM
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I agree RD, the biggest reason we got our shepherd spayed was so she wouldn't leave a horrible big bloody mess everywhere in the house. Dogs in heat are a HUGE pain to live with. It also took her more than a month to recover from the surgery, and she had all kinds of complications with the wound that required going back to the vet several times. In all, I'm glad it was done but it certainly was a lot more traumatic for her than a properly timed and performed ear and tail dock would have been. It would be a complete lie to say that it was more "for her own good" because it caused her a lot of pain and trauma for our convenience.

I don't think docking and cropping are a big deal if done correctly, including at the correct age. We modify all different kinds of animals to make living with them more convenient or make them more aesthetically pleasing to us,

Personally, I have a much bigger problem with the people who, through breeding, have modified english bulldogs to make them what they are today. I believe that anybody who would knowingly and pursosefully breed an animal that absolutely can't be born naturally (without c-section) and knows that she will need an operation just for the puppies to be born is just wrong. A C-section is a MUCH bigger deal than an ear crop or dock. Obviously something is wrong with modern specimens of the breed because english bulldogs existed before c-sections. I will never own one for that reason.
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  #83  
Old 06-27-2007, 02:58 PM
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RD

My "official" stance on alterations to a dog's body--ANY alterations, including microchipping, etc--is that if they are done HUMANELY, a dog is your property and you have the right to do as you choose in most countries, and it is not my business to try and legislate/ban those rights away. While I may disagree/etc with what you are doing, it's not my right to impose my OPINION on you. Debating is fine, though, so carry on and sheathe those claws.

To Sapphire.. it's not called a "pit bull" crop. Not to be mean, but this made me kinda mad. It's called a "military" or (obviously) a "short" crop. There could be other names as well.
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  #84  
Old 06-27-2007, 03:14 PM
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I've known it to be called the "working crop" or "functional crop"
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  #85  
Old 06-27-2007, 03:20 PM
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Mmm okay. I knew there were probably other names, 'cause I think I've heard others, but couldn't remember what they were.
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  #86  
Old 06-27-2007, 05:11 PM
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Sorry, I think my mistake was not say " like the cut that pit bulls have"

Since I have heard many names for it, I didn't knew the exact name to put it.

Others are bell cut, triangle cut, sticked to the skull cut...
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  #87  
Old 06-27-2007, 09:38 PM
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I'm against docking and cropping, but moreso cropping. There's always bluster about supposed "health benefits" for it and reasons why it's appropriate for breed A, B, and C, but really . . . why were dalmatians' ears once cropped and why aren't they cropped now? It wasn't because they had horrible ear diseases that mysteriously vanished when their ears were left uncropped. It was because it was FASHIONABLE. It's no better than people who put earrings in their dogs' ears because it's "cute", despite the fact that the dog doesn't want earrings.

No, the pain of cropping and docking doesn't last long. But the fact that the pain is temporary is a poor excuse. If a man amputated a puppy's leg when it was born because he wanted a three-legged dog, the puppy would also forget the pain and learn to run happily on three legs. But it would still be a horrible thing to do--someone hurting a puppy because of his own selfish whim.
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  #88  
Old 07-05-2007, 04:44 AM
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I'm not sure if its to late to reply to this or not.. but here is my stance on the whole thing.

I am okay with cropping and docking. I can see that in some instances docking has its benefits. I don't know what benefits cropping has besides making a dogs ears stand up. But that doesn't mean I am against it. I like the way certain breeds looked cropped and docked. I think rotties look better docked, I think dobermans look better cropped and docked, But I dislike the way boxers look cropped. They look nice docked but I love the way they look all natural! long wiggly tail and cute floppy ears. I love long waggy tails and floppy ears ^.^ I like the way American pit bull terriers look cropped but only if the dog is WELL cropped. Not some home done butcher job. That makes me sad. But done right it looks nice! That's all. I just don't like any surgery that is bad for the dog.

I once saw a husky that hated his own tail, he chased it daily. And one day he decided to chew it half way off! they completely amputated his tail and people critisized his owner for doing that to him! Even though he did it to himself. He was much happier and healthier and less stressed when the tail was removed. The vet could have saved the tail, but the owner just had it amputated so it wouldn't happen again. I would have done the same thing ^.^
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  #89  
Old 07-05-2007, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Aussie Red View Post
Many of my breed of choice the ACD are docked for various reasons.
These guys when they are bored have a tendency to chase their tails.
Some chase them and end it there and others will cause injury to themselves. After they have injured it they continue to do so until there is little choice but to remove it.
Some ACDs who are work dogs only are docked for a less chance of injury to their tails.
ACDs have beautiful tails but I do know that in many cases of docking there is little choice.
I am neither pro or against docking. I feel that if it is the owners decision to have it done as with cropping so be it.
I think that if we can do their dew claws and spay them etc it is not a big issue but I would never do it unless it had to be and was done while they were puppies. Tail docking as dew clawing should be done very very young before the bone in the tail is large and makes a more serious amputation. I agree with OC here some breeds we have created need to have it done to them for the fact that they are breed for a specific reason and some dogs do suffer ill effects because they are not. I don't like the fact that we put an animal in pain for cosmetic reasons but if the dog is healthier for it then I am for it. Whiskey had little choice in his tail dock and saving it would have put him in greater pain then having it removed. I know people on another forum who are having to dock their ACDs tails because the dog is chasing it and biting it to the point of no return. It happens and to dock or not to dock may not be just a choice on looks. There are breed types and actions and health that warrant it.
LOL! Joyce, I never heard that before ? Amputate because they chase their tail to much and cause damage? That's insane! Maybe it is lack of physical and mental stimulation and they need more excercise so the only way they can get it is by chasing their tails . My Caiza has never done that behavior and like Outline said it seems like a behavioral issue than anything. Caiza has a gorgeous tail... thick, strong, and powerful. ACD's need their tails to herd and use as a rudder to give them balance when chasing cattle.

Anyways, If I had a rottweiler or doberman I preferably like the tail docked look on those breeds because that is what we are used to and are used to seeing. A natural dobie looks like a hound to me, though cute. I went to a K9 schutzhund exhibit awhile back and they had a 120 lb rottweiler imported from Germany with his tail. I must say he looked funny to me because of what we do here in the states for cosmetic reasons by docking and again what I am used to. The K9 officer explained that it also gives them better balance when chasing after "bad guys" once again acting as a rudder.
Anywho, with my breed I hate seeing breeders breeding ACD's without a tail and couldn't imagine Caiza without one. I think he would look funny...............
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  #90  
Old 07-05-2007, 09:53 AM
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Around here it is very common for the farmers to dock ACDs tails. So common that the first time I saw one with a tail (when I was like...7 or so) I didn't believe it was a real ACD lol
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