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  #61  
Old 06-23-2007, 09:51 PM
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Rosefern Rosefern is offline
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Originally Posted by Sizzledog View Post
Luckily, my dogs aren't attacking machines - they are bold enough to back a bad guy into a corner and HOLD him there - I can't think of many watchdogs that have the courage to hold an aggressor for more than a few seconds. In both holding situations, the dogs held the bad guy in a corner for more than 1-2 minutes before I came to investigate.
My Rhodesians did the same thing. They would hold someone until they were released...one of our females held an intruder in our house (all the other dogs were crated), backed into the bathroom, for an hour.

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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I just don't see the need for a furry weapon without good reason (but then again I don't get why Americans have guns in their houses either)
We lived in a safe neighborhood, in an isolated area, and we trained, showed, and bred Rhodesian Ridgebacks. We had no reason, protection-wise, for a "furry weapon", but we had many of them.

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  #62  
Old 06-24-2007, 12:32 AM
Dictator Dictator is offline
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Douge Brasileiro would fit most of your criteria. I would not suggest taking them to dog parts or leaving them off leash with other dogs. They do not start trouble but they are fast and strong, they can finish it before you can react. I live in an apartment and I have two of them. Fantastic apartment dogs.
Boxers are very high energy. A Clumber will in no way protect. Someone kicks in your door a Clumber will then run out. Clumbers also require lots of exercise. They may be the slowest of the sporting breeds but they are still a sporting breed.

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  #63  
Old 06-24-2007, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SizzleDog View Post
I might as well post on this topic - I was staying away from it, but what the heck, might as well...

I live alone. I'm small, female, and I live in an apartment, in a college town (I have to... I'm going to college!). My SO does not live with me, as he is going to college elsewhere.

I have two Dobermans. They are pets first and foremost, but they are also my protectors - and have proven themselves in this regard.

Situation #1: Someone robbed a neighboring house, and was caught in the act - he ran. He saw my family's house, and decided that it looked like a great place to hide... but Ilsa disagreed. She cornered that criminal in our living room, backed him into a corner - until the police arrived to arrest him. What could have happened if Ilsa hadn't been there? Would he have seen me (I was alone in the house) and ran away? Would he attack me? Luckily we didn't find out, thanks to my Doberman.

Situation #2: I was biking, late at night. I'm a full time student and also hold a nearly full-time job, so that was the only time that day I could get out and exercise. I had brought Ronin with me. About midway through the ride, a man ran at my bike from the darkness, and tried to push me off my bike. Ronin swung around (I accidentally hit him square int he chest with my bike in the process), let out a roar, and nearly took the guy's face off. He yelled something like, "Sh*t, I didn't know you had a DOG!" and ran off. What would he have done if my Doberman hadn't been with me - would he have pushed me off my bike, laughed, and went on his merry way? Would he have robbed me? Would he have raped me? Thanks to my Doberman, we didn't have to find out.

Situation #3: I was in the bathroom, both dogs were loose in the apartment. My sliding glass door was open, because my SO was coming over and he doesn't have a key (my landlord only issues one key per tenant, and I'm the only tenant). Someone walked into my apartment... but it wasn't my SO. It was a stranger - my dogs immediately backed him into a corner, snarling and barking. I came out to see what the ruckus was, and found this *strange man* in my apartment! I asked him what the heck he was doing there, and he made some lame excuse as to why he'd walked into my apartment without knocking. I told him to leave, and told my dogs to let him go... and instead of backing outside, the guy took a quick step toward me. Ronin leapt forward and again, nearly took the guy's face off. If I hadn't been holding tight to his collar, he would have bitten the intruder. Now... if it hadn't been for my protectors, what would that guy have done? Would he have robbed me? Would he have raped me? Would he have killed me? Luckily, my Dobermans saw to it that I didn't have to find out the hard way.


It's easy for people who either live with their spouses or parents to say there's no need for this young woman (BlackDog) to have a dog that can protect her. But I'm in her shoes - I share her situation - and if it wasn't for my dogs, dogs that have proven that they're ready and willing to bite the bad guys - I might not be here to be typing this.

Luckily, my dogs aren't attacking machines - they are bold enough to back a bad guy into a corner and HOLD him there - I can't think of many watchdogs that have the courage to hold an aggressor for more than a few seconds. In both holding situations, the dogs held the bad guy in a corner for more than 1-2 minutes before I came to investigate.
AMAZING post, Sizzle.



No one has suggested Rotties. I don't know about the exercise level, but are they a possibility for BlackDog? Maybe Redyre, J's Crew, Sunnier could give you more info.
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  #64  
Old 06-24-2007, 06:59 AM
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Saintgirl Saintgirl is offline
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I don't think the OP intentions were to go out and find a killing machine dog, I think that she just meant that she wanted to have a dog that she felt secure with, and personally I don't find anything wrong with that! Lots of people have dogs like Rotti's and Dobie's, and GSD because they like the personality of the dog-it matches them best AND they enjoy the security (whether real or not) that they provide.

My Saint offers me all the joys of a wonderful companion (and as a Saint lover some of these joys include incredible shedding and slingers hanging from the ceiling!). However, if I want to take a walk at night- I can. If my husband is away overnight for work, I still have a 190lb dog sleeping in the bed beside me. Saints are not your typical killing machines, infact they are very docile and people oriented. A Saint will probably even lead a thief in to your house and help him steal the big screen TV---BUT 2 things will keep you safe here...
1. 190lb bark and head peeking out through the door stops people from wanting to break in and steal the big screen TV in the first place.
2. If someone was so foolish to break in anyway, they best take the TV and leave you alone, because as docile as a Saint can be they WILL become protective of their loved ones if need be, and that is one hell of a big dog to make angry.

Also, giant breeds can make wonderful city dwellers. Just because they are so big does not mean that they have higher energy levels. Mastiffs, Saints, Newfs are all fairly low energy dogs. A good walk a couple of times a day typically takes care of any of the built up energy levels they may have. However---and a big however at that---Giant breed dogs are more expensive!! And I mean food bills (although not nearly as horrible as many would think), vet bills (they are WAY higher, even for typical things like a dose of antibiotics), you get the point!

So good luck Blackdog, in finding the perfect dog for you! Research, research, research and you are bound to find the best suited match for your lifestyle, and kudos for you on starting your search early and not getting a dog on impulse when the time comes to add another into your life!!
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  #65  
Old 06-24-2007, 08:39 AM
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CAOgirl CAOgirl is offline
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You want the best of both worlds it seems like... a dog that is great with everything but will protect. You cant guarantee a dog will protect unless you are going to spend the time and money in training a dog to do so... and with that many dogs fail. Once a dog engages, how are you going to call the dog off?

There was a man on another board that had a south african boerboel... well his home was robbed and the dog did NOTHING!... Just because a breed was at one point a guardian doesnt mean it still is... And to rely on something because it was stated in a book, is rather silly. And then if you insist on pure breeds, then make sure you see the parents or have them evaluated in willingness to protect

With own guardian breeds, you always need to be a step ahead of them and to always remain working with them.

What happens if you are out without the dog and something happens? I think there are better ways to keep yourself safe vs having a dog to do that.

apply for a license for a gun, learn how to shoot the gun and learn all the laws, and a gun isnt going to fail on you. Dont walk with earphones on or talking on the cell phone, stay alert, etc...

IMHO most boxers will kiss the intruder that is trying to cause harm...

and you are going to need real training classes not the clicker ones at petsmart... owning guardian breeds are much more difficult than what you think.

I just spent 7,000 installing fencing for a quarter of my yard, 2,000 on kennels for my garage, then I spend 30 a dog per session on training which is weekly... I personally wouldnt own a guardian breed in an apartment and I have guardian breeds now, it isnt fair and too stressful for them. Think of the dogs needs and not just your own.

Get good locks, alarms for the doors and windows, phone near by, self defense class and common sense... it will be better in the long run

A barking dog will do just as well as one bred to guard... a person isnt going to break into the apartment with the barking dog... and if the person truly wants to cause harm to you, they will just kill the dog plain and simple...
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  #66  
Old 06-24-2007, 10:49 AM
icklemiss icklemiss is offline
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Originally Posted by SizzleDog View Post
I might as well post on this topic - I was staying away from it, but what the heck, might as well...

I live alone. I'm small, female, and I live in an apartment, in a college town (I have to... I'm going to college!). My SO does not live with me, as he is going to college elsewhere.

I have two Dobermans. They are pets first and foremost, but they are also my protectors - and have proven themselves in this regard.
.
Nice post, Sizzle. But then, I am biased...

I have had two similiar experiences but both were outside rather than inside...
In one situation, walking my red girl late at night (I lived in an even more urban, busy neighbourhood than now). I rounded a corner on a street and didn't see the guy standing behind the tree...But Zoe did! and this was a selective dog.. Dobes don't bark their heads off like demons (IMO) unless there is a threat to person or home. But she went off like I have never seen her. This guy seemed innocuous (He wasn't doing anything to me but just standing up against a tree) but for some reason, my girl didn't like him.....At the time, I was embarrassed but later that week, we learned there was a rapist in the area...Now, this guy was likely not the suspect. I don't know...
To this day, I am certain she got a bad vibe/smell of this person and could detect it when I couldn't.

I do know that I wondered what would happen if I was walking alone or wasn't walking the dogs for some reason??

Now to the OP, I do disagree with the fact that you would want a guard dog instead of a watchdog...I am floored when I hear of people even getting as far as the door when there is a dog (any dog) inside...The warning bark of most guardian breeds is enough to send someone running backwards down the steps, let alone thinking all the way to enter a house with one in it...

In all honesty, I loved my dogs for the "perception of threat" to another who wants to do harm, but there is no way I would want them to physically defend me and possibly suffer themselves...If I wanted that, I would get a gun (not really, but hopefully you know what I mean).

The greatest sign I have ever seen is a plaque with two dobes on it on a fence and the caption reads
"My dogs can get to this fence in 2.4 seconds. Can you?"
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  #67  
Old 06-24-2007, 12:04 PM
BlackDog
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Originally Posted by CAOgirl View Post
You want the best of both worlds it seems like... a dog that is great with everything but will protect. You can’t guarantee a dog will protect unless you are going to spend the time and money in training a dog to do so... and with that many dogs fail. Once a dog engages, how are you going to call the dog off?

There was a man on another board that had a south african boerboel... well his home was robbed and the dog did NOTHING!... Just because a breed was at one point a guardian doesnt mean it still is... And to rely on something because it was stated in a book, is rather silly. And then if you insist on pure breeds, then make sure you see the parents or have them evaluated in willingness to protect

With own guardian breeds, you always need to be a step ahead of them and to always remain working with them.

What happens if you are out without the dog and something happens? I think there are better ways to keep yourself safe vs having a dog to do that.

and you are going to need real training classes not the clicker ones at petsmart... owning guardian breeds are much more difficult than what you think....
I have already said many times that I will be taking this dog to training classes. I never once said I would take them to petsmart training classes. Those are a waste of time and money!!

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Originally Posted by CAOgirl View Post
apply for a license for a gun, learn how to shoot the gun and learn all the laws, and a gun isnt going to fail on you. Dont walk with earphones on or talking on the cell phone, stay alert, etc...
I am against owning guns! You are more likely to hurt yourself or a family member than you are in protecting yourself from someone breaking in. Besides, what if I'm not there? What if the person breaking in someone gets the gun? Guns are not an option for me!

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Originally Posted by CAOgirl View Post
I personally wouldnt own a guardian breed in an apartment and I have guardian breeds now, it isnt fair and too stressful for them. Think of the dogs needs and not just your own.
I am not just thinking of my own needs. I will not keep a dog with high energy or too large in an apartment. I would, however, consider getting an older retired champion GSD from a breeder with a health warranty. That is a win-win situation.

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Originally Posted by CAOgirl View Post
Get good locks, alarms for the doors and windows, phone near by, self defense class and common sense... it will be better in the long run.
I am already going to get locks, and have a phone nearby. I don't know if the apartment would let you install alarms. I guess that would depend on the individual apartment. Self defense classes are out of the question. Last October I was diagnosed with a rare disorder of the nervous system. I wouldn't even be able to stand on my feet long enough to take the classes.

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Originally Posted by CAOgirl View Post
A barking dog will do just as well as one bred to guard... a person isnt going to break into the apartment with the barking dog... and if the person truly wants to cause harm to you, they will just kill the dog plain and simple...

You obviously have your mind made up about the situation regardless of the circumstances, or how valid my reasons are for wanting a dog for protection. It is NOT unreasonable to want a dog that can protect you, in my situation. A retired champion Doberman, GSD, rottie, etc...could easily do that job and have a wonderful post-showing life with me. I will be spending most of my day with my dog. He/she will not be crated or left alone for more than a few hours. A lot of times I will be taking this future dog with me to a farm at least once a week. Other times, he/she will be coming with me to my parents’ cottage up north where they live on a lake and we would do some fun water retrieving/swimming/fetch/etc…And no, this does not agrivate me health condition. Standing on my feet does. And no, this would not be the only time I would exercise him/she.
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  #68  
Old 06-24-2007, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by icklemiss View Post
Nice post, Sizzle. But then, I am biased...
Now to the OP, I do disagree with the fact that you would want a guard dog instead of a watchdog...I am floored when I hear of people even getting as far as the door when there is a dog (any dog) inside...The warning bark of most guardian breeds is enough to send someone running backwards down the steps, let alone thinking all the way to enter a house with one in it...
I agree with "the bark of a guarding breed would sent most people running backwards down the steps" part. But you can't predict what will happen in every possible situation. Using that logic no one needs a a guarding breed for any situation ever.

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Originally Posted by icklemiss View Post
In all honesty, I loved my dogs for the "perception of threat" to another who wants to do harm, but there is no way I would want them to physically defend me and possibly suffer themselves...If I wanted that, I would get a gun (not really, but hopefully you know what I mean)....
You are misunderstanding what I have been saying. I don't want a dog who's going to attack without thinking. I don't want a dog who will attack if there's a way to first get the person out of the house. I want a dog that will attack only if someone is physically hurting me. And yes, there are breeds who, when professionally trained, can discern the difference.
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  #69  
Old 06-24-2007, 12:43 PM
icklemiss icklemiss is offline
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I personally have always liked Brian Kilcommon's response to people stating they want a guard dog.

When people say "I want my dog trained to be a guard dog", he responds by saying something like "well, you would need to train your dog to sit" and they excitedly say "my dog can sit!".....And he responds with something like
"if they can sit on a dime in an open doorway as a squirrel runs by "....and then he goes on to articulate some other "musts" the dog must have...and then and only then would he train a dog to be a guard dog...
(I may have gotten that somewhat wrong but the essence is that there is a difference between a well trained dog and a dog that is an infallible weapon that has a 100***37; response in any situation.)

Personally, it's just my opinion that you are asking for something that depends on a selective, intensive and serious training level that most experienced and wise trainers are challenged with, let alone an average dog owner.
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  #70  
Old 06-24-2007, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by icklemiss View Post
When people say "I want my dog trained to be a guard dog", he responds by saying something like "well, you would need to train your dog to sit" and they excitedly say "my dog can sit!".....And he responds with something like
"if they can sit on a dime in an open doorway as a squirrel runs by "....and then he goes on to articulate some other "musts" the dog must have...and then and only then would he train a dog to be a guard dog...
(I may have gotten that somewhat wrong but the essence is that there is a difference between a well trained dog and a dog that is an infallible weapon that has a 100% response in any situation.)

Personally, it's just my opinion that you are asking for something that depends on a selective, intensive and serious training level that most experienced and wise trainers are challenged with, let alone an average dog owner.
Some breeds naturally have a nack for what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, my favorite, and most most qualified breed, is too large for a apartment. There are breeds that naturally think first before attacking. Yes, they still need intesive socialization and training, but can be done. And I am not the average dog owner, by the way.
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