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Old 04-24-2007, 10:45 AM
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Julie Julie is offline
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Default Please Help Me: for those feeding raw.

Okay I have given the occasional raw bone, but now due to the broad food taintings and poisonings... I feel this could be my last choice, I do not feel comfortable feeding my dogs Kirkland after what I have been reading today (at least until this gets straightened out). I feel the bag they are working on now is fine, but I do not want to take the chance of buying more, when diamond has recalled some of their foods. This bag is almost empty, so I will have to act quickly. I have alot of meat in my freezer, some of it may be a little old to feel comfortable to feed to my family... would it be okay to feed to the dogs?

Can someone please give me something simple and complete I can follow until I get started? I know this has been talked about and have read alot of threads about it... But I am talking simple, What should I feed say the first week? Pretend you are talking to a child.
My dogs weigh:
Charlie 93
Shiloh 70
Rocket 70 (high energy)

Thanks for any replys,
Julie.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:22 PM
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General rule of thumb:
You need to feed your dog 2***37; to 3% of the dog's ideal body weight, so an 80 lbs dog would be fed 1.6 to 2.4 pounds of raw meat and raw bones
covered in raw meat per day, 20% of their diet needs to consist of offals (organ meats and the like). So really it is not that much, and it is pretty cheap. Of course you need to adjust accordingly as to their individual activity levels.
We use mostly poultry. Freeze before feeding and then thaw in the microwave however much we need at a time.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:47 PM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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your first weeks EASY!
this is based on what im currently working through with some experienced raw feeders and are their suggestions. IM STILL LEARNING MYSELF

2***37; of the dogs ideal weight for a normal activity level, up to 3% ideal weight for a high energy dog.

the first week, that weight will be 100% chicken backs (or quarters)
assuming thier poop is ok move onto the second week if not generally just keep up that weeks regime untill the stool firms (adding baked sweet potatoe will help very runny stools at ANY time.)

in your second week you want to introduce another easy food Turkey Necks are a favorite amongst those ive talked to.
chicken backs/quarters 2, days then turkey neck the next, then chicken back/quarters 2 days then necks the next. ect.

third week add a ground meat, ground turkey or beef is good (i prefer beef if you using turkey necks cause i like some veriety.)
i was told with the ground meal do your ground meat, add 1 egg (inc shell and a small baked sweet potatoe)
on one day during the week, add your ground beef meal.

4th week, add a fish meal, most of those ive talked to use canned salmon and makerell and add a small baked sweet potatoe, but you want that meal about 2 days away from your ground beef meal.
ie chicken monday, ground beef tuesday, chicken wednesday, turkey necks thursday, fish friday, (see that 2 day gap) though im sure if you wanted to do differently thats fine, and some people DONT add fish they just add salmon oil to the dogs diet but i like the veriety.

now you have your BASIC diet.
thats it...

now say you have acess to rabbit and deer and beef ribs ect, now your dogs got his full spectrum down you can pick one of the chicken days and add some rabbit, deer, goat, beef ribs, pork ect one week, see how the dogs do with that, try a different RMB each week untill the dogs are used to each meat your gonna feed and alternate those out, id do the "other" meats once a week in place of the chicken.

ive been told to introduce organ meat (liver, kidney and pancreas) VERY slowly and not untill after the first month. and by little i mean 2-3 times a week (start with once a week) they each get a THIN slice or small cube. too much organ will be fairly quickly responded by runny poop lol so youll know pretty quickly if its too much too soon. organs will NEVER be fed as a meal but instead a little bit should be added to another meal 2-3 times a week.

Green tripe is also somehting many people add after the first month, its very good for them and in the method i personally prefere to feed would be the only source of vegatable matter. its aparetnly pretty stinky though and NOT a must have. fruit and vegies are ok as an occasional treat but many dont even bother adding vegies or fruit to thier dogs diet (on the premis they would only eat those things if their prey animal had reacently eaten them hence the green tripe)


as for knowing if your feeding enough, just watch your dogs figure...if your dogs looking a little slim, give a little more, getting a little rotund cut back a bit.

the other question would be how do i knwo meat to bone, the poop should be small and firm after there used to it, and should be easy passed and after about 2 days outside turn white and turn to dust.
if the poop is very dry and powdery and whitish theres too much bone, add more muscle meat.
if the poops a little too soft, too much muscle meat add more bone.

ive always been told its 100% safe to thaw your meat in the fridge (or even counter top) overnight for the next mornings meal and then during the day for the evening meal, so dont worry about having to keep it frozen up untill justbefore feeding time.

the biggest peice of advice i was given was KEEP IT SIMPLE. if you cant freely get rabbit of deer, dont introduce it as a diet staple, use the meats redily available, and dont try to add too much complication to it.

this is the way ive been taught to raw feed over the past year of info searching, and is what im going to be switching my dane pup on once he comes home.

hope that helps.

http://www.eastwooddanes.com/SampleMenu.html
the sample menue here is essentiall what ill be following and while its a dane sight should translate to any breed so long as you keep the weights according to each of your dogs.

hope that helps!
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:11 PM
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Foxy, I just have to say, that link you posted is the GREATEST! If that doesn't convice someone I don't know what will! LOL
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:35 PM
Melissa_W Melissa_W is offline
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Foxy, that was a GREAT post! Someone should sticky that.
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:38 PM
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*blushes*
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I wonder if other dogs think Cresties are members of some weird religious cult?

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Old 04-24-2007, 08:44 PM
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I agree, Melissa. Sticky
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:06 PM
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Yikes. I have never heard or read anyone suggesting 2 weeks straight of just backs and/or necks before. There is hardly any muscle meat in necks and backs. That is not balanced and is very constipating. You need some muscle meat in there. I would only feed RMB (necks/backs) as one meal per day maximum. Chicken quarters have much more muscle meat from what I gather (I don't feed quarters)

I also only feed 5-10% offal. My dogs won't eat a meal of raw liver (can't say I blame them- it's nasty) so I use offal patties which have ground up liver , heart and other organs and add that to a RMB meal--- waaaay less gross. Offal tends to give dogs the runs so I would start that a bit later once you know how things are sitting. If your dog is still going to eat some kibble your offal requirement is much lower.

I also would stick to one protein source or protein sources you know your dog does well with until you know how your dog is doing on raw. (ie chicken and turkey if that's what's in their kibble) I made the mistake of doing too much variety too soon and ended up with a dog with serious yucky-d and probably a very upset tummy.

I would also aim for less fatty cuts of meat at first whenever possible. I used to pull the excess fat off backs or pay a big price, now it's fine. Raw diets tend to have much higher in fat than kibble and that's fine, just take a while for a dog's body to adjust.

Ground meat carries a much higher bacterial load so be careful with that - if you can feed cheaper cuts of meat that aren't ground, that's much safer bacteria wise.

Amount to feed seems to vary hugely by the dog. My dogs eat almost 3%.(they weigh roughly 50lbs and eat 1.5 lbs in a day) the Golden we looked after was HUUUUGE on 2%. I would err on the side of underfeeding for the transition to reduce the chance of yucky-d.

There are several types of fish that aren't safe to feed raw- I'm not sure what they are. I give the dogs cooked fish from our leftovers and canned fish. They also get fish body oil every day, vit E (if you supplement with fish oil/omega 3's , you need to add vit e at 100iu per 25 lbs of bodyweight daily) I used to add kelp for trace minerals and iodine bit I feed Orijen kibble almost half the time right now and it's very high in iodine.

Hope that helps.

I like the site of my local premade raw company for nice concise info www.mountaindogfood.com The only thing I don't agree with on the sit is that you shouldn't ever feed kibble if you feed raw- that's myth. Although I don't tend to feed raw and kibble on the same day.
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:28 PM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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the backs should NEVER be mostly bone, backs SHOULD be about the same meat to bone ratio as quarters or at least the backs i have gotten in the past to look at have if anything a tad more muscle meat than quarters. the bones are also much smaller/softer.
notice how i also say backs or quarters, and that necks should only be 1-2 meals a week during that 2nd week period.
youll also notice that i do state organ meat should never be a meal in itself but instead added to another meaty meal.
Heart is also considered a Meat not an organ.

i personally dont like premade, but thats personal preference. its hard to get here and VERY expensive for what it is.

the guys who have been mentoring me and using this method of feeding have been doing so for years, most of which switched from the barf diet.
again, im a beginner and one thing i HAVE noticed with raw feeding is there are ALOT of different opinions. i got reamed on one site because i said i wasnt planning on feeding any other veggies than green tripe, because "thats not balanced" or another who told me feeding fresh meats wasnt safe and that i HAD to feed the premade, another who told me its 100% safe to mix kibble and raw in the same meal (of none compatible types)
so...

chicken backs and quarters tend to be THE staple of most raw feeders in terms of chicken.
chicken backs have more in trems of structural bone, but when compared to the leg bone in the rear quarters its about the same.

you also REALY dont have to worry too much about the bacteria in raw meat as the dogs natural stomach ph is so high itll kill most any bacteria that goes in there.
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I wonder if other dogs think Cresties are members of some weird religious cult?

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Old 04-24-2007, 09:31 PM
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Good info, but no way should 20***37; be organ meat. A couple ounces 2-4 times a week for a large dog, maybe 1-2 times for a small dog.
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