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  #21  
Old 05-18-2005, 10:58 PM
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Maybe I should give my dogs more credit for passing theirs. What is the TT ?
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2005, 02:48 AM
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Actually the CGC is quite easy and I believe even Ripley could pass it, aggression and all. If a dog pulls on the leash and won't lay down without physical assistance, it isn't well-versed in basic obedience, which is what the canine good citizen test is all about. It's not about temperament, just manners.

I'm all for mandatory temperament testing of all intact dogs. If they do not pass a temperament test, they should be required to be altered. Eventually, the poorly bred dogs would die out, and only the dogs with decent temperaments would remain and breed. That alone, I believe, would help a lot with the problem.

I know, a lot of people say it's all in how you raise dogs, but I think it's mostly about genetics. A dog with sound temperament will not become vicious if it is chained, treated poorly, or ignored. I have seen heartbreaking cases come into the shelter here, dogs that have been severely abused (One dog had to have a leg amputated because her owner beat her with a shovel) and yet some of them are still wonderful and sweet. I am not saying they do not have behavioral problems, but they kept their sweet, loyal nature. Some on the other hand, are downright unmanageable and just plain vicious sometimes. It doesn't mean that they were abused any more severely than the sweet dogs, they just don't have stable temperaments and stressful situations like that cause them to snap.

IMO most of the problems pits have comes from bad breeding. Bad owners ARE part of it, but even in having a bad owner, a well-bred dog will not be a total menace to society as pits are unfortunately made out to be.
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2005, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip's Girl
I know, a lot of people say it's all in how you raise dogs, but I think it's mostly about genetics. A dog with sound temperament will not become vicious if it is chained, treated poorly, or ignored.
Well I think Nurture is far more important that Nature. I know a couple of people involved in Pitbull rescue and some of the sweetest dogs (My Athena included) are puppies taken from dog fighting operations. My Athena was a puppy that resulted from a large dog fighting operation in Chicago. She was lucky enough to be born the day after he mother was take from the cruel &%$#@# who had them. So geneticly she comes from "Fighting Stock" but her and he siblings, which the rescue lady keeps in touch with, are all good natured dogs because they have been raised in good homes.

Sure some dogs are impossible to make mean but given the right nurturing, the vast majority of dogs would never be aggressive. And the great thing about Pitbulls is that they are usually super people friendly and even if they hate other dogs they still like people. It isn't until teenage drug dealers started using Pitbulls to guard their property that the Pitbull has been used to be people aggressive. This really started in the 80s, before that you rarely heard of Pitbull attacks. When I was growing up in the 70s it was the Dobie that was the "Killer" dog. Dobie lovers please don't get mad....I love Dobies and know they are victims of movies and media also.
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2005, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbatd
Maybe I should give my dogs more credit for passing theirs. What is the TT ?
Grammy, here's a short description of one part of the Fila Temperament Test:

"The temperament-test of the CAFIB for Filas shows us the following: the at least one year, but preferably older dog, will be put on a long lead provided with a tether. The owner has to step aside a few metres. Then, a person will energetically approach and threaten the dog with a stick and protection pad. The ideal Fila will, while absolutely still, focus on the attacker until he exceeds the distance of about 1 or 2 metres, then the Fila will attack while he jumps straight up to the person directly and wholly. The fila doesn't step back, never looks back to his owner and is not influenced by the protection pad, but attacks the person from above. Usually the person and the dog don't have contact. Therefore there is no biting involved - except when the person involved has come too near and will hold out his sleeve for his own protection. The whole exercise called "attacking" is therefore for a very short time. Only the reaction of the dog is wanted. The reaction ought to be hard, ought not to show any hesitation and has to be focused on the attacker as such. A good sort of Fila has this behaviour inbred in him. This is his character and doesn't need to be trained."

The article this is from will probably interest you as a former dog-breeder: http://www.mindspring.com/~anableps/...lder/TTBR.html

Another part of the test requires that the Fila not show any negative reaction to gunshot.

Clelia Kruel has a good explanation of the standard here: http://www.volny.cz/filabrasileiro/en-temperament.htm

Another link with standards: http://www.filabrasilassn.com/breed_standard.shtml
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2005, 11:15 AM
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Understand .
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2005, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amstaffer
And the great thing about Pitbulls is that they are usually super people friendly and even if they hate other dogs they still like people.
That is DEFINITELY true. I work for a vet and can't think of one pit client we see that ever needs a muzzle (on the other hand, almost all dauschunds require them...but try banning THOSE and watch the outcry!).

It's true that pits are bred to be dog aggressive (at least in fighting lines), but they're also bred for bite inhibition AGAINST humans so their handlers can get them out of the fight ring while their blood is still boiling without getting mauled.

Breed bias makes me so incredibly mad, I had a horrible time finding an apartment that allowed GSDs...even ones that allowed large dogs usually have breed policies.
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  #27  
Old 05-19-2005, 04:14 PM
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I just wanted to add, also, that anyone interested in "anti-breedism" bracelets (Livestrong style bracelets) to protest breed bias can check out this web page: http://www.livejournal.com/community...no/438013.html
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