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  #11  
Old 12-02-2006, 02:31 PM
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it probably won't be long before all premium dog foods have it in their mix, you think?
It's hard to say- I guess it depends on if research shows that providing additional taurine can help prevent heart problems, or if it just helps to treat heart problems in dogs that have already developed them. It doesn't seem like adding taurine could hurt anything... I mean, it's just another amino acid. So perhaps if companies decide that adding it can't hurt and could potentially even help, then we will see more and more companies adding it.

As far as cats and taurine, I know pretty much everyone in my class was aware that it's an essential amino acid for cats, and we've had it repeated in at least three different classes (and several times in biochemistry). So at least they're putting an emphasis on it now. Sorry about your kitty :-(

EDIT:

Huh, this is interesting:

Quote:
Animals: 12 client-owned dogs with low blood or plasma taurine concentrations and DCM. Medical records were reviewed, and clinical data were obtained. RESULTS: All 12 dogs were being fed a commercial dry diet containing lamb meal, rice, or both as primary ingredients. Cardiac function and plasma taurine concentration improved with treatment and taurine supplementation. Seven of the 12 dogs that were still alive at the time of the study were receiving no cardiac medications except taurine. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Results suggest that consumption of certain commercial diets may be associated with low blood or plasma taurine concentrations and DCM in dogs. Taurine supplementation may result in prolonged survival times in these dogs, which is not typical for dogs with DCM. Samples should be submitted for measurement of blood and plasma taurine concentrations in dogs with DCM, and taurine supplementation is recommended while results of these analyses are pending.
Ever heard of this with regards to lamb/lamb and rice diets?
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Last edited by StealthDog; 12-02-2006 at 02:39 PM. Reason: adding another study
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Old 12-02-2006, 07:51 PM
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I'm a cat veteran but a dog newbee so I surf a lot to learn about dog, but the only thing I saw on taurine was, like I said, that they were determining that it was helpful with regard to the cardiomyopathy. I don't remember reading anything about lamb specifically but now that you mention it. Google has a lot on it so it must be being studied at a faster rate than we know.. It IS interesting.

Seems a few companies are pushing the taurine supp. in their lamb and rice formula though.

http://www.nutroproducts.com/press100201.asp

And here's one saying lamb and rice can contribute to a deficiency in taurine. Seems like google has a lot about it.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/lin...6.2003.00446.x

And here's another claim on taurine helping a family of goldens with heart issues
http://www.jaaha.org/cgi/content/abstract/41/5/284
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:16 AM
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Tosca, I asked about this in class the other day (it received a "Great question" from the prof, BTW... ;-) ). She said exactly what you did, that some dogs just can't form taurine, and that taurine deficiencies lead to cardiomyopathies just like in taurine-deficient cats. She said that certain breeds are predisposed to it, and that she expects dog food to start moving towards more individual-type marketing (like Royal Canin already is, with breed-specific diets). She said the most recent movement was to come up with an "optimal diet" for all dogs, and now we'll likely see a shift towards recognizing genetic differences between breeds and diets that address breed-specific nutrition requirements.
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:20 PM
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Hey Stealth I'm glad she liked the question. Hope I contributed to an "A". heehee.

Incidentally, Natural Balance Ultra Premium has Taurine supplement in it now. I bet some of the other premium foods do too. It would be interesting to note which ones are on the early recognition stick wouldn't it?

I will die wanting to be a vet. I'm glad we have people like you working so diligently to become state of the art vets.
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:32 PM
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Post Taurine and kidney failure/high protein

First the taurine thingie from: http://rawfed.com/myths/standards.html
These "complete and balanced" and "not harmful" pet foods can destroy long-term health and cause disease and yet still be marketed as a healthy food for your pet. This has been PROVEN true. An example would be the lamb and rice commercial diets that had met or exceeded the nutrient profiles of AFFCO, and that had passed the AAFCO feeding protocol yet created a taurine deficiency in the dogs that ate them (Torres, C.L.; Backus, R.C.; Fascetti, A.J.; and Rogers, Q.R. Taurine status in normal dogs fed a commercial diet associated with taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy. Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition. 87 (2003). 359-372.). The dogs suffered from dilated cardiomyopathy; what is particularly distressing is that dogs can synthesize taurine from the readily-available (at least, in raw food) amino acids methionine and cysteine (whereas cats cannot), yet they still developed cardiomyopathy from this AAFCO-approved food! As a result, taurine is added into many commercial diets, but what about the dog owners whose pets became seriously ill and perhaps even died as a result of this oversight?


Protein = kidney disease = from what I've been reading; there appears to be no link between high protein intake and kidney disease - either human, cat or dog.
If a dog is affected by kidney disease; visit this link, looks promising.
http://courses.vetmed.wsu.edu/vm552/...ses%20of%20CRF

Modification of dietary protein intake: It is generally agreed that reducing dietary protein intake can ameliorate some of the clinical signs of uremia. The controversial aspects of protein modification include when to restrict protein, how much protein is needed, and will protein restriction delay the progression of renal disease? Some studies in rats, humans and dogs demonstrate that high protein diets result in glomerular hyperfiltration that in turn contributes to progression of deterioration in renal function suggesting that protein restriction in patients with CRD may ameliorate glomerular hyperfiltration and delay disease progression. This is not accepted universally regarding dogs with renal failure (see Finco 1989 in Current Veterinary Therapy X).

The optimal dietary protein requirements for dogs and cats with CRF are not established. Current commercial renal failure diets contain

* Dogs - 1.9 - 5.2 grams of protein/100 kcal high biologic value protein
* Cats - 5.4 - 7.2 grams of protein/100 kcal high biologic value protein

The protein source determines the biologic value and usability of the protein. Proteins with high biologic value can be readily converted to body proteins with minimal waste production. Animal proteins have a higher biologic value than vegetable proteins. Eggs have the highest biologic value.

Protein modification can be achieved with homemade diets or commercial diets such as Hills KD and UD.

Phosphorous appears to be more of a concern than protein; Phosphorus restriction may delay the progression of renal failure and will minimize hyperparathyroidism. Protein restricted diets are also restricted in phosphorus. If phosphorus remains increased while feeding a protein restricted diet, phosphate binding agents which bind phosphorus in intestinal tract can be administered. Allow about 2 weeks of feeding just the phosphate restricted diet to determine its impact on blood phosphorus concentration before adding phosphate binders. Samples to analyze serum phosphorus should be obtained after a 12 hour fast. Phosphate binding agents include aluminum carbonate, aluminum hydroxide, calcium citrate and calcium carbonate. Phosphate binding agents are given with meals (or mixed with food) and are dosed to effect to normal serum phosphorus levels. Side effects may include hypophosphatemia, constipation, and aluminum toxicity. Aluminum toxicity causes encephalopathies and bone disease in humans, neither of which have been documented in cats or dogs. Calcium containing phosphate binding agents (acetate, carbonate, citrate) should not be used until serum phosphorus is reduced to < 6 mg/dl. Monitor blood calcium and phosphorus concentrations at 10 to 14 day intervals while determining the necessary dose, then at 4 to 6 week intervals when serum phosphorus has normalized.

Most meat portions that I have used have only been 10% to 20%, but you would want to calculate the phosphorous portions. I think it is significant that homemade diets for renal failure in dogs is even mentioned on a vet med site.
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2006, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
but what about the dog owners whose pets became seriously ill and perhaps even died as a result of this oversight?
I think it's all about learning. My first dog was fed KenL ration because it was the best there was out there. We have come a long way and will come a longer way. But in the end, it's all about learning as they go. I wouldn't call it oversight so much as part of the learning process. As I said, I had a cat die of cardiomyopathy at a time when nobody knew that much about how important taurine was. I can't blame the field of science then for not knowing...yet. I had a dog die of chocolate toxicity a long time ago, well before anybody even thought that chocolate was toxic to dogs. Look at it this way if you can: there are so many humans who are dying of diseases that one day will be resolved or cured. It wouldn't be because of oversight so much as the process of learning that hadn't yet caught up to the cure. Years ago people died because there were no antibiotics. But we caught up. People died when there were no transplant successes. But we caught up. So, I think will the science of pet nutrition. Compared to a few decades ago, I would say they have come a very long way.
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