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  #11  
Old 09-29-2006, 12:46 PM
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Yeah, I guess it's just admission of failure on the part of the trainer? Not in a bad way -- it's great to have a backup plan. But wouldn't it work equally well, if you're like me and haven't really conditioned a recall at all yet (will be starting soon!), to condition your regular recall using the emergency recall method?
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2006, 01:26 PM
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It can be confusing, but not for the dog. This is the same principle as a "front" , drop on recall or "heel" in competition work. The dogs are taught as pups "lets go" to walk on a loose leash on your left. When they get to the point of learning a formal "heel", this is with great precision, head up without breaking eye contact and able to move left and right disengaging hind end and "pivoting", so to speak. You don't want this level of formality when you want to take your dog on a nice walk or just get to the car quickly. So, "lets go" and "heel" are different for the dog, even thought they're basically both requiring the dog to walk on you left, on a loose leash. As for a drop on recall verses putting your dog in a down. Both are the same exercise but one much more formal. One "down" requiring the dog to drop immediately on his haunches, chest on the ground, no rolling on a hip, ready and poised to come foward as soon as next commands given. You don't need this level of formality when you're out shopping and just want him to lay down quietly in the isle. And the dog needs to know the difference there too. So, these "downs" are taught differently. As for a recall. Most trainers teach your dog to come to you at a moderate speed, and without much hesitation as a pup. So it's "come" or "here". When competing and using a "front" the dog is then taught that it needs to "fly" to you, giving you 100% of it's attention, no quick sniff on the ground along the way and to sit in front of you, until the next commands given. Most of us do not require this of our dogs it's not an emergency, and we simply want them to come to us in a timely manner and just stay close. It would be stressful for the dog to expect this level of performance from him on every command, in every situation. But he does need to know that when he hears "that word", it is very formal, precision, timing and accuarcy is required at the second that particular commands given. Don't jog to me, run! I really want to hear someone yell "you're naked" sometime though. It's much more interseting than "Front!" lol
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2006, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otch1 View Post
It would be stressful for the dog to expect this level of performance from him on every command, in every situation. But he does need to know that when he hears "that word", it is very formal, precision, timing and accuarcy is required at the second that particular commands given. Don't jog to me, run!
Ah, I didn't know it could be stressful for the dog to have to do that every time I call him! That's a great explanation, thanks!

My boyfriend always tries to "help" me train my puppy, he'll call Louie's name, and then ... nothing. Louie looks up at him, nothing happens, then he goes back to sniffing or whatever. I'm like "Dude, don't do that!" Or he'll call Louie to him with "Come" and whistles and claps, then Louie gets to him and he just says "Good dog" and keeps watching tv. I try to explain that he's training the dog to ignore him, but then he gets mad at me :/ I don't whistle (don't know how) and I don't use "Come" I use "C'mere" (more natural for me, I'm not a competitor) so hopefully the boyfriend won't be able to do too much damage until he figures out that he's supposed to be ready with mega-rewards when he calls the dog!
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  #14  
Old 09-29-2006, 02:11 PM
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[QUOTE=BostonBanker;464679]LOL I spent most of today thinking about this exercise, and wondering about the same things as you. Here's what my brain worked out:

Most people probably screw up the recall more than we want to admit. They call the dog to "come", and then don't have rewards, or they call when there is no chance of getting the dog to come (mid-chase), or they repeat themselves so many times that the dog hears "come", and just tunes it out. "Come" becomes an optional command.
EXACTLY!!!
I always teach a regular recall as well as an Emergency Recall (ER), and you're so right, people set their dogs up for failure from the very start by calling them while they're already headed to a competing motivator.

I start by having the owners ONLY call their dog when he/she is already coming to them. This first step lasts for about 2 weeks while the dog is achieving a conditioned response to hearing his name called. This sets them up to know that when their name is called, they end up coming...everytime. The normal way that people try to teach recall is by calling their dog when he's going in the other direction, he keeps going and CABOOM, you've taught him that he has the option.


With the emergency recall, you set yourself up to practice by having the treats, being in the right situation. You are using a command that the dog doesn't hear over and over again, so it means just one thing. And you always reward with a huge jackpot.
Right Again! You condition the response so that no other option exists that compares to the jackpot they can expect everytime. It's proofed slowly so that it can transfer to more and more "hairy" situations. It is after all, pretty cheap doggie life insurance.

I love the idea of this exercise - I'd never heard of it. Meg's recall is pretty stunning anyway, but I'm thinking of using the same idea to really jackpot "come" a few times a day. I admit, I'm too self-concious to stand in the yard screaming "You're naked!" to my dog Please let me know how it goes. I'd just love an update!
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2006, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourjayne View Post
Yeah, I guess it's just admission of failure on the part of the trainer? Not in a bad way -- it's great to have a backup plan. But wouldn't it work equally well, if you're like me and haven't really conditioned a recall at all yet (will be starting soon!), to condition your regular recall using the emergency recall method?
The Emergency Recall must be something really special and infrequent compared to a regular recall so that in an emergency, it's not like every other typical experience.
Kind of like if you got flowers every day, flowers wouldn't seem all that special. Or if you had you favorite food for every meal. Not to mention if you did a 30 second "fine dining" type feed with every recall, your dog would be a little pork chop in no time.
I use this ER term along with the extra special treat (that they ONLY get with the ER), 3/day, then 2/day, then 1/day..a couple of times/week and finally once a week so that it's always special, never boring, and of course ALWAYS VERY REWARDING.
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  #16  
Old 09-29-2006, 03:18 PM
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Super! Thank you!
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2006, 05:07 PM
britney britney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2little View Post
That's great. The sentance that you quoted is just one example of where the Emergency recall works.
It's taught and proofed with many competing motivators but is very effective for puppies as well, very early in their training. It really just teaches that no matter what the distraction, when the ER is called...there's no thought to do anything but come. I've use it mid chase with Sophie and a rabbit and have people talk about crazy things that they've gotten their dogs out of using this Emergency Recall.
I can certainly see that ER is a tool that every owner should have in some form. For myself, I have the rocksolid forget it for the almost unimaginable occasion that she has already crossed a road and needs to stop something but coming to me has risks. Having said that, the Maori language commands she picked up as a puppy from an older dog (but rarely hears today) are ones that she responds to instantly.

I like the point you make that everyday commands get diluted by not being enforced to the same degree every time. I've often noticed that as dogs get older, a certain amount of leeway works its way into the day to day obedience.
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2006, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britney View Post
I can certainly see that ER is a tool that every owner should have in some form. For myself, I have the rocksolid forget it for the almost unimaginable occasion that she has already crossed a road and needs to stop something but coming to me has risks. Having said that, the Maori language commands she picked up as a puppy from an older dog (but rarely hears today) are ones that she responds to instantly.
your posts confuse me. I think its the sentence structure. maybe I'm just dumb....
whats Maori language?
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  #19  
Old 10-31-2006, 06:04 AM
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What an excellent thread. I'm bookmarking it for future reference. I never thought of an ER for Skye but can see it could be a lifesaver. Many thanks for the practical advice.
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  #20  
Old 07-06-2007, 11:13 PM
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EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed, most of us manage at one time or another to screw up the recall and then it doesn't work when we need it the most.

I am certainly going to train this, just another very valuable tool. Now I have to come up with a word.........going to ask my Hub and son they both have a wicked sense of humor and will love coming up with a word.

Do we have permission to print it off and pass it on to others or to cross post it to other forums??

Thanks again
Lynn
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