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Old 08-15-2006, 01:30 AM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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Location: western Wa
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I agree that the dog must be prevented from running off. However, a prong collar or choke chain causes some pain...proably more than is needed to keep the dog from running off...unless this is some 150 LB dog. There are no pull harnesses out now, I believe and haltis (which I don't like much). I'm just afraid that the dog may associate pain with the already fearful thing. But of course, the bottom line is to keep the dog from running off and getting hurt or killed.....of course.

Before getting into that situation again, where the dog may encounter a bus close up, I'd try to find a safer place to walk, even if you have to drive there first, where you're somewhat further away from that noise, but maybe where she can still hear or see the bus a little.... where you can work with her... A phobia like this is a hard thing to get extintion with. It takes some time and patience.

The Flooding / Response Prevention: the process in which the fear eliciting stimulus is shown in a full blown way without the subject being able to escape. This can sometimes work but is unethical and more often then not, only makes more harm. I just took that from some scientific terminology thing I have. This technique which CM uses a lot can cause real trauma and it can also cause spontaneous recovery which is a behavior which was thought to be extinct suddenly reappears. The subject stops reacting simply because he realizes he can do nothing about it. He finally gets "used" to it, but underneath, he is traumatized and can be made quite neurotic. I think this is unacceptable.

You also might consult with a vet. This may be some neuron...synapse thing going on in her brain....something medical. It wouldn't hurt to ask his/her opinion.
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:54 AM
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GSDlover_4ever GSDlover_4ever is offline
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Originally Posted by Brattina88
snapping a chain is a correction . . .

However I do agree that the dog needs to not be able to run off

Didnt see that .
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Old 08-15-2006, 11:43 AM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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no worries

OP - You've been given some good advice, please keep us posted on progress
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Old 08-15-2006, 12:11 PM
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Angelique Angelique is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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One of the primary lessons Cesar teaches is it's your anticipation, attitude, and reaction to "scary" objects and situations which can make a big difference when dealing with a fearful or insecure dog. There is also a huge difference in coldly flooding a dog, and standing with them to face their fears when they trust you as their leader.

My own dog came to me completely terrified of many things. She is now doing great and trusts nothing bad will happen to her when she is with me.

If you want to try counter conditioning at a distance to see if that will help, give it a shot. You don't have much to lose since your dog's fear has already escalated to the point where you can't even take a walk and are avoiding the things your dog is afraid of. I'm glad you got your husband to stop coddling when your dog is afraid, but the damage has already been done.

At this point I think you are confused on what is a correction, what is a redirection, and what is containment with the leash. You need hand-on help.

Fearful dogs are a lot more of a challenge than dogs with other "issues". It takes an experienced person to observe this situation, see first-hand how you are interacting with your dog, and to teach you how to deal with this.

Your dog does not feel safe in your presence right now and has probably had their fear reinforced over and over by a lot of little things you are doing, which you are not even aware of. Even looking suddenly at a dog, raising the pitch of your voice, acting nervous, widening your eyes, stopping when they react, focusing on and/or avoiding scary objects and situations - can all add to this.

Your dog is always "reading" you...keep this in mind. A trusted, consistant leader who is not fearful of anything helps create a follower who also not fearful, simple as that.

I would take Cesar's show with a grain of salt, and get his book "Cesar's Way". His TV program shows what he is doing with a specific dog, but his book contains the philosophies behind the methods. The TV show will not give you the whole picture, and neither will listening to people who attack and smear him in fear and ignorance.
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Reward the good, ignore the bad, and always remember to duck during the temper tantrums!

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Albert Einstein

Here's to you, Jane Goodall. So much insight into the mind of a species from someone who's never trained a single chimp.

Last edited by Angelique; 08-15-2006 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 08-15-2006, 12:25 PM
casablanca1 casablanca1 is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pidjun Haller, with ma uncle Palmer
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You know, you could ask your vet about medication. Even if it's just a temporary thing, to calm her down long enough to learn that the scary things aren't deadly, it might be helpful. They do prescribe things like doggie Prozac for extreme behaviors, and if it's so bad you don't feel safe taking her out of the yard, it might be time to consider extreme measures.
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Old 08-19-2006, 11:05 PM
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patience2 patience2 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 62

Thanks everyone , and Angelique you sound very wise. She has come into
heat a few days ago, and is a little calmer right now. Could spaying
maybe calm her down a little bit? I am thinking more serious about
spaying her. As soon as shes out of heat I'm going to take her
to the Vet, and ask questions , see what they say about the
nervousness and prob get the spaying done. I'm also going to
work on being a more relaxed leader. Thanks again
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:15 AM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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Spaying her is a great idea
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