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Old 04-24-2014, 04:08 PM
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Default The "holistic dog" movement

Where do you stand on the issue?

It is actually really starting to scare me some of the things I hear come out of people's mouths. The "holistic dog" movement is taking off full force and people are feeding things and refusing preventative actions based on false premises. And heaven forbid if you disagree, because then you are just a money grubbing, traditional idiot who is going to kill your dog with all of these processed, medicated things.

Did you know you don't need to vaccinate your puppy, because they have maternal antibodies? And that your dog, in its entire life, only needs one set of each vaccine to have antibodies forever?
Did you know that feeding a raw diet prevents fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes from biting your pet and transmitting diseases? Oh, and it also prevents intestinal parasites. (Someone please tell this to feral cats.)

I just...don't even know where people's minds are anymore. I'm all for limited vaccines, limited, safe drugs, and a proper diet...but COME ON. People are setting their dogs up to contract completely preventable diseases and parasites and they don't even know it, because they think doing "natural" things will prevent everything.

Am I completely off base? Am I the one that isn't with the times? Or have other people noticed this too?
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *blackrose View Post
Where do you stand on the issue?
...Did you know you don't need to vaccinate your puppy, because they have maternal antibodies?...
Welll, they do, but only for the first few weeks of like.

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Originally Posted by *blackrose View Post
...
Did you know that feeding a raw diet prevents fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes from biting your pet and transmitting diseases?...
I think there is some truth to this-the healthier the animal, the less likely they are to be infested with fleas and ticks. A healthy dog will still pick up a few, tho.

But, I'm with you- some people are way over the top about this.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:38 PM
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You know, the pendulum swings. I'm all for things like reduced vaccine protocols, but things are getting a little too far away from center for my tastes at the moment. I suspect that when we start having significant disease outbreaks, it might swing back towards the middle a bit.

I think it's a combination of forgetting the past, confusing correlation with causation, being lucky, the (mis)information superhighway, and a diminishing tolerance of risk that seems to be getting really entrenched in society.

There's an awesome book called "Dog Food Logic," and if for nothing else it is worth a read for a really, really excellent discussion of how our brains are wired to make decisions (hint: not logically, and none of us are immune) and how to evaluate claims and evidence.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:44 PM
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I feed partial raw. I also vaccinate my dogs and will continue to do so as me and my vet decide. I also will continue to vaccinate myself as me and my doctor decide. I would never ever do no vaccines. I think it is very risky. I also would never do yearly vaccines but that bothers me a lot less than no vaccines.

Not sure where that makes me stand.

I think a lot is the internet day and age. You can find all sorts of information and maybe some of it is true, lol.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:49 PM
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Same thing is happening with human healthcare. I feel like all I ever say over and over and over again is, "everything in moderation." I'm a definate "middle of the road" person.... And that pretty much applies to everything.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:18 PM
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I don't vaccinate adult dogs and I don't use flea/tick prevention. I don't use medications unless where necessary and especially avoid steroids like the dickens.

I do year-round heartworm prevention and that's about it. I'm happy with my dogs' health and comfortable with what we do. I would not be comfortable with a more "traditional" approach.

I'm not bothered much by what other people do, if they think they're doing what's best for their pets then I'm fine with that.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:03 PM
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why are people worried so much about what others dog with their dogs or children? I'm sure the holistic people get sick of hearing about how if they don't subject their dogs or kids to the same stuff more western med people do, they're killing the world and all that other stuff. I find most to be as swayed by propaganda as those on the "other" side. I see such BS spewed by both sides. It's democrats and republicans, neither can see just how alike they really are and dig in for the long fight to the end no matter what and quite a few really have no idea what they're talking about, they just spew talking points given to them by someone else.

It's not like our animals or people are a pillar of health in the world anyway. When I see a typical American doing something, you bet your ass i'm probably doing something different No way I want to end up like them.

Not everyone has the same risk-reward values. Some are willing to accept things others are not. Live and let live and do what you think is best.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
why are people worried so much about what others dog with their dogs or children?
Because herd health and disease reservoirs. Your choices about your dogs and children CAN affect my dogs (and children if I had them).
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:52 PM
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I'm all about moderation and (like with humans) feels the NO VACCINATIONS EVER SO NATURAL movement has gone too far.

I vaccinate for life threatening ailments and always will (parvo, distemper, lepto etc..)
Bordatella, lyme etc... I don't consider worth doing, so I don't.

In months where he needs it I use REAL flea/tick/heartworm preventative. Because I don't consider the risks of heartworm/flea/ticks (which can be life threatening) worth the possible side-effects of the preventative.

As for the food issue, I do raw when I can, I do grain-free kibble when I can, depending on which my dog does best on. If he looked/felt best on proplan or whatever, I'd be feeding that.
Fact is, he personally does BEST on grain-free food, so that's what I feed. Has squat to do with what's "natural"

I will always trust my vet when it comes to health concerns a million times more than dog people on the internet or any kind of hollistic specialist That is a fact. Maybe not for nutrition (hey science diet hey) but for his general health you bet your bottom I am trusting my vet that went to school and does what she does everyday with scientific studies and schooling behind her more than somebody whose cures don't have anything solid to stand on.

I think the all natural problem will fix itself when the pendulum turns and people will remember why we started vaccinating in the first place when all this crap comes back swinging.

I think there are plenty of ways to do the whole natural dog holistic thing CORRECTLY AND SAFELY (titers etc...) but people don't. and that's a problem.
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:02 PM
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(For the record, I do limited vaccines, no FT prevention unless I'm concerned about exposure, have no issues with raw feeding, and I don't like over medicating.)

Quote:
Because herd health and disease reservoirs. Your choices about your dogs and children CAN affect my dogs (and children if I had them).
^ This.

I guess I have less issue with people making decisions based off of research and fact than just jumping on a band wagon and spouting off second hand information that has been so run through the telephone line that it's far removed from the original statement.

I also guess my other problem is that I care too much. I've had to speak with people who had no idea the disease their dog is now dying of was preventable. Or that it was preventable, but they thought they *were* preventing it and in fact were not. And that people think all people in the medical field are just money grubbing bad guys who want to take you for all your worth.

Of course, there is also the other side. I'm half convinced my childhood dog had his first seizure due to an adverse reaction to a medication, and had I actually done research on said med instead of just relying on the old-school vet my parents used, I never would have used it.

But...when people just blindly follow one extreme or the other without doing their own investigating...it bothers me.
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