Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 02-13-2014, 04:14 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,530
Default

Oh wow, I had no idea that welshies had long ear feathering. I have no idea why I didn't think that since most spaniels do. Learn something every day.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old Papillon)
Summer TG3 TIAD - (10 year old Papillon)
Hank - (approx. 10 month old Spotty Dog)
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 02-13-2014, 04:23 PM
Elrohwen's Avatar
Elrohwen Elrohwen is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 1,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Oh wow, I had no idea that welshies had long ear feathering. I have no idea why I didn't think that since most spaniels do. Learn something every day.
Haha. I think it's probably proportional to how much regular feathering they have. After 6-8 weeks between grooms, his ear feathering is only about 1cm below the line of his ear leather, so it would take a while to grow it out like the ESS do. The ESS also have longer ear leather in general, so they don't need to grow as much hair to get the long look. I love the paps because they get the glamorous ear feathers without the issue of getting it in their food.
__________________

Watson - Ch. Truepenny Olympic Triumph | Welsh Springer Spaniel | DOB 8.2.12
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 02-13-2014, 05:04 PM
JazzyTheSibe's Avatar
JazzyTheSibe JazzyTheSibe is offline
Dogless
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 828
Default


These Labradors, seem overweight(obese) to me. I don't know if it's the "type" for that particular line. But, they just shouldn't be bred if they are that type.

These Labradors, are what I prefer,compared to the dog above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
Well I didn't see anyone calling dogs ugly even, they pretty much just said "This is what I don't like and here's why." I don't think anything about that is rude or unfair. Unless I missed a really nasty post.

I don't care for type on most showline BCs or Aussies. It doesn't mean I think they're disgusting, it just means... I don't care for that type. I like the rougher cut, slightly scruffy working type dogs.

Not everybody will like your dog, especially their appearance. Who cares? I hope we haven't reached the point of warm n' fuzzy where we can't even calmly discuss our preferences in type.

Somebody on here said that field line English Cockers were too ugly to even consider. I lol'd, same person has American Cockers which aren't my cup of tea at all. Nothing worth getting upset over.

I don't like seeing people bash lines especially if it's coming from ignorance, but I didn't see any bashing unless it's the Golden Retriever comment we're referencing?
This
__________________


Jazzy 5 y/o. Siberian


~A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, educated or illiterate, clever or dull. Give him your heart and he will give you his.~
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 02-14-2014, 08:11 AM
Aleron's Avatar
Aleron Aleron is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerKid View Post

I have real issues with show breeders not breeding for temperament traits or working abilities that the breed was originally developed. I mean, I'm not going to say that to win BIS the dog should also be the absolute best at its job, but I just don't understand actively breeding towards traits that may negatively impact a breed's ability to do its job.
To be fair, show bred Goldens are bred for...well showing. And companionship. They are a wildly popular breed in our modern times, so there are many modern "jobs" for them. The most common is being a good companion. How many people are actually seeking out Goldens to hunt with? Don't those people go to breeder who actively hunt with their dogs? The same as people who show go to breeders who actively show?

Some breeds/dogs are known for being versatile and having show dogs who retain good working ability. Some are not. In some breeds, there's splits between working and show (and performance and pet and...and...) but in those breeds, the separate populations don't tend to have much impact on each other. They might also be a positive in terms of genetic diversity and the potential to outcross within the same breed but totally different gene pools. And in some the working dogs are what's in the ring. And in some, there's really no working lines only show or show and pet. The show ring doesn't "ruin breeds" though. If a breed no longer has a working population, it's likely because modern times don't support a job for them. If the show breeders have opted to breed for an easier and/or prettier version of what a working breed...well, they're breeding them for pets and show dogs. Does anyone in modern times buy a PWD because they make a living as a fisherman and need a dog to move nets between boats and carry messages back and forth to the shore? No, people buy them for show, companions and performance dogs. Their job is outdated and without a doubt the PWDs of today are not the same dogs the fishermen of the past used. But that doesn't mean the people who have and breed PWDs love the breed any less or that the breed should become extinct because they can't be bred for work. All breeds are constantly evolving as times and needs change. There's still a strong working population of GSDs but I'm not sure they are "just like the captain's dogs" of the past. I think the working GSDs are still in general terms the dogs that the breed founder wanted them to be but they have undoubtedly changed in appearance and likely to some degree, character. Things change, people change and dog breeds change.

And besides that people are never happy when it comes to breeds in the show ring. When you have a breed like the PyrSheps who are still very close to and true to their roots, people have a hard time accepting them as they are. Everyone will go on and on about how they don't have good temperaments because they still act like dogs who lived with nomadic people in the mountains. And that their breed standard is too loose and allows too much variance because the dogs in the ring "don't even look like the same breed!!!".

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerKid View Post
In Eskies, at least around here... so much focus has been put on coat colour and size that breeders are not considering temperament, and it is resulting in dogs that are overly fearful and outright aggressive, which IMO goes way beyond the "wariness of strangers" allowed for in the breed standard.
Not sure how long you've had Eskies but those temperament issues aren't new and certainly aren't limited to show lines. Considering how many Eskies I have met and how many who are fearful and/or aggressive, I'd say that is a problem that is pretty widespread in the breed. No one who breeds show dogs wants to produce dogs who can't be shown though and dogs who won't stand for a judge to examine them or who bite the judge aren't going to do very well in the ring. I'd say IME the Eskies at shows are generally more tolerant of handling than the pet bred Eskies I have come across for sure.
__________________
Nikki & the Herding Breed Variety Pack
Visit Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Alerondogs
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 02-14-2014, 08:50 AM
release the hounds release the hounds is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,108
Default

Are Golden's good at being companions? I dont ever come across field type Golden's so I dont know much about them, but it seems every show golden I know is dead of a brain tumor by age 7 or 8.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 02-14-2014, 10:51 AM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is online now
Lord Cynical
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,358
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Are Golden's good at being companions? I dont ever come across field type Golden's so I dont know much about them, but it seems every show golden I know is dead of a brain tumor by age 7 or 8.
I know plenty who are quite old, and doing just fine. Granted, I do see a TON of them since I belong to an AKC obedience club.
__________________



Morado Dobermans... and Talla the Mexidog too! (group photo pending)
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 02-14-2014, 10:54 AM
GingerKid's Avatar
GingerKid GingerKid is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 88
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
Not sure how long you've had Eskies but those temperament issues aren't new and certainly aren't limited to show lines. Considering how many Eskies I have met and how many who are fearful and/or aggressive, I'd say that is a problem that is pretty widespread in the breed. No one who breeds show dogs wants to produce dogs who can't be shown though and dogs who won't stand for a judge to examine them or who bite the judge aren't going to do very well in the ring. I'd say IME the Eskies at shows are generally more tolerant of handling than the pet bred Eskies I have come across for sure.
Tolerance to handling is something that can be easily trained in adult dogs, and it is even easier of the touch desensitization starts at a young age. I have seen adult dogs that had issues with anyone touching them at all turn into dogs that had no issues being fully handled by complete strangers (including dental checks) after a few weeks of constant and consistent touch desensitization work. Desensitizing a dog to touch early can make a huge difference, regardless of the dog's temperament, so some of the difference between show and pet Eskies is likely the owners and the mount of effort they put in to training and building a sound dog. Based on the dogs that come into the shelter with intolerance to handling (as either strays or as surrenders), touch sensitivity is something too many pet owners just accept.

I can't say for sure, but probably all of the Eskies I have met have been pet-bred. Some of them have been in a shelter setting, where two of the four Eskies I worked with were owner surrenders for biting (the other two were brought in as strays). Most of my dog experience is in rescue, and conformation shows are not well (i.e. never) advertised in that community so I've been having problems getting information on shows so I can meet different breeds. I feel like a lot of points that you brought up are good ones, but at the same time, make me really hesistant about getting into showing, and in the future, breeding. (Well, that and money ).

I also have a hard time reconsiling BIS - how does a judge compare dogs who are all nearly perfect specimens of their breed to one another, when they all represent something different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Are Golden's good at being companions? I dont ever come across field type Golden's so I dont know much about them, but it seems every show golden I know is dead of a brain tumor by age 7 or 8.
Hubby's aunt had a golden who lived to be almost 11 with epilepsy and kidney failure. He eventually died of liver cancer. His sister died at age 7 also from liver cancer.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:19 AM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is online now
Lord Cynical
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,358
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paviche View Post

But shouldn't breeders at least be trying to breed for decent ears, since the standard specifically states that uncropped is preferred? Cropping because ears are crappy seems like a cop out.
Let's say breeders start making ears a priority. What happens to the dogs that end up with bad ears in the meantime? Can't be shown, can't really be bred, and finding pet homes could/would be difficult. Entire breeding programs could be wiped out. And much, much bigger issues (health, temperament, and structure) could be neglected and be allowed to run rampant. As far as ears go, IMO they're really low on the list of things that need to be drastically changed and specifically bred for, until such time as it is illegal to crop them. Dogs don't run or jump with their ears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaNola View Post
The way I see it, if you're showing your dog you're paying money to have it critiqued. You kinda open the door to criticism yourself when you show your dog.
I get your point, but I would like to clarify - people pay money for a judge to critique their dogs. While we can all agree that the judges get it wrong sometimes, the fact still remains that the only opinion people are paying for is that of the judge. Anything else is just ringside speculation - which could be spot on, or could be totally off base. Especially when you're dealing with people who don't know or understand the standard of the dog they're criticizing.
__________________



Morado Dobermans... and Talla the Mexidog too! (group photo pending)
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:21 AM
release the hounds release the hounds is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,108
Default

I wasn't meaning they ALL die young, it just seems to me there is a high percentage compared to the others. I had a GSD we think died from hemangio at 11, I've known plenty of others that have died young for all sorts of reasons cancer included, but the number of dogs and handlers with GSD's I know or have contact with dwarf most other breeds besides the Mal and most of them live 10 or beyond with little troubles.

But of all the Golden owners i've known, it seems more rare that one lives past 8 than dies before it from cancer. Different owners, different breeders, different areas. Just seems weird to me
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:32 AM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is online now
Lord Cynical
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,358
Default

Don't worry, I wasn't saying that you meant they all die young.

All I meant was that in my peer group, those with conformation-bred Goldens don't seem to be losing dogs any younger than those with field and/or obedience bred Goldens.
__________________



Morado Dobermans... and Talla the Mexidog too! (group photo pending)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site