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  #61  
Old 11-10-2013, 11:29 AM
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chelsey chelsey is offline
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What is "This Country" ? Why do you assume we know the same people ? You make so many assumptions.. My primary training decoy is from a club in France and he brings many of his friends to Canada to train. We train around Toronto and Sudbury primarily.

Lifework was a typo for bitework, was replying on my phone, my apologies. You will have to take it or leave it that there are others using x-backs for bitework. I don't name drop as a habit and peoples names do not belong on public forums without their permission by my standards. But god forbid we use a harness designed for endurance work by dogs who can actually breathe properly during the work!! A proper fitting x-back puts the side straps along the side of the dog, back towards the hips, so good low leash handling gives you better control of the entire dog than agitation harnesses (again I should clarify we are ring people so we do leg work primarily).

I'm glad you know a lot about physics but I don't think you know anything about training sled dogs.

Harnesses for sledding get way more workout than an agitation harness ever would. Training programs for sledding involve training different paces to build endurance and strength. Speed is set by the driver and a team of yearlings will continuously throw themselves at their harnesses until they learn to just lean into them and pull full bore. You have an entire team doing this straining against each other. The gang line and the harnesses form a chain and a chain is only as strong as the weakest link.. This work and straining happens daily for hours in the case of distance teams. Harnesses last years, sometimes decades in conditions where they are wet and then frozen. Also, again, not everyone training bitework lets their dog slam at the end of the harness. We do mostly tension work and drag ins with the line, and then use a bungee for slowing down targeting and for reflex work on the guard, etc.

It's crazy some random person is more closed minded about using an xback in French ring training than multiple older experienced French decoys who have been to selectifs and finals for many years!
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  #62  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:02 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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I'm not closed minded, I am random, I do make assumptions. You can use an xback, I do NOT think they are better for bitework than an agitation harness, or they'd be called agitation harnesses


I'm guessing you don't do much lifting and setting on bites for imprinting objects guards and all sorts of other things, because an x back isn't built for it, an agitation harness is.

The major difference is one is designed for it, one is designed for steady loads in straight directions. If all you're doing is straight out and back in, it's probably OK, it still wouldn't be your regular harness working with me

an x back does lay on the sides of the dog when attached low and pulling forward. When held waist or chest high which is often and a dog spins, or turns or jumps and hits the end and comes back down, an x back absolutely has NOTHING holding it in place. The back comes off, i't flops all over and you have a strap cutting in behind the shoulder blade as the dog tries to spin out of it. If you use them, then you already know this.

An agitation harness can be fitted to prevent this, and if you'd use a proper fitting one, you'd know that too.

anyway, what do I care, I rarely have use for a harness

Go have fun with your multiple experienced French decoys that have been to the selectifs and finals many years. You can have them, as Harry said, "the French are assholes"



.....and before you get your panties in a bunch, it's a movie quote i find funny
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  #63  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:14 PM
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chelsey chelsey is offline
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I think the sledding people would be very offended if we renamed their harness ;-) We use leashes and bungees in agitation training too, we don't rename them agitation leashes... lol!

Again a properly fitting xback doesn't have enough room to spin on the dog.. you should go talk to your friend again about harness fit :-) You keep your leash at the base of the tail, you have a ton of control compared to the middle of the back. The agitation harnesses I have don't have an adjustable chest plate, that's my issue with them :-) Do you know where I can get one with an adjustable felted chest plate? Again I do use them and am not against them, but some dogs fit into an xback like a glove, like my female mal. It's just physics :-) And most people are talking about frustration and drive building, not basket imprinting. Although I did use an xback when teaching my male male upper body targets and had no issues placing him with my decoy...could you imagine that?

If you don't use harnesses much, why do you care what I am using? I'm not the one who got my panties in a bunch over this suggestion... What colour are yours?

I will have fun training with people who train amongst a country where 500+ ring3 dogs compete every year. A country which invented the sport. They don't know anything about French Ring. They are also quite nice and not assholes to me at all, but it's true they don't like americans much though! Wonder why!

All I was doing was suggesting an alternative. That most people don't think about nor have tried. That actually works well in many cases. For 20-30$ it is quite a bargain and useful outside of bitework - such as "pulling things", as you put it.. :-)
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  #64  
Old 01-23-2014, 07:02 PM
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Kootenay Kootenay is offline
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I finally found an IPO club somewhere in my vicinity...6 hrs drive one way. Sometimes it sucks living in the middle of nowhere! I've talked to them and I think I'm going to join and just try to get there as often as I can, maybe once a month. They said we could train Sat/Sun so that would be worth it I think.

Now I just need to rally some friends to get into the sport so we can share driving and travel costs!!
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  #65  
Old 01-23-2014, 08:21 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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Originally Posted by Kootenay View Post
I finally found an IPO club somewhere in my vicinity...6 hrs drive one way. Sometimes it sucks living in the middle of nowhere! I've talked to them and I think I'm going to join and just try to get there as often as I can, maybe once a month. They said we could train Sat/Sun so that would be worth it I think.

Now I just need to rally some friends to get into the sport so we can share driving and travel costs!!
get enough friends together and form a club, then you don't have to drive
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  #66  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
get enough friends together and form a club, then you don't have to drive
Haha, yeah that would be ideal! But someone would have to know what they were doing, right?

That can be the goal a bit down the road, for sure!
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  #67  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:31 PM
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(I am a complete newbie to the sport)
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  #68  
Old 01-24-2014, 08:34 AM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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Originally Posted by Kootenay View Post
Haha, yeah that would be ideal! But someone would have to know what they were doing, right?

That can be the goal a bit down the road, for sure!
I don't know It sure helps, and luckily and thankfully I've had the pleasure of being introduced to some that really did know what they were doing early on.

But over time I've seen a lot of stuff, sometimes I wonder if newbs wouldn't be better of completely on their own

Good luck, it's very addicting, I think all sports are if you love dogs. Only being able to do bitework once per month will limit you, but you can do ob and tracking anywhere and anytime.

You'll be able to teach the basics of a lot of bitework exercises with a pillow and a friend at home too. Enough to really make an impact when you get access to a "real" helper.

remember pics and video are mandatory
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  #69  
Old 01-24-2014, 08:35 AM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Finding a helper who's good and safe is our biggest challenge. The rest can be practiced alone. and even lots of protection work such as blinds & transports & barking & targeting/grip.
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  #70  
Old 01-24-2014, 09:25 AM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Finding a helper who's good and safe is our biggest challenge. The rest can be practiced alone. and even lots of protection work such as blinds & transports & barking & targeting/grip.
I'd be up for letting you fly me out to Portland on weekends to do helper work on a pretty regular basis

I don't even know anybody in that neck of the woods that can help you though, sorry

It's like that everywhere though. I can think of 3 or 4 clubs around me, within 1-2 hour drive and I'd rather just work my dog myself.

I'm trying to get a couple nephews going at it, but they're teenage boys and have the attention span of teenage boys. But the only other helpers I'd trust to do good work are 3 and 5 hours away.
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