Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 11-19-2013, 11:01 PM
Southpaw's Avatar
Southpaw Southpaw is offline
orange iguanas.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

do you want a dog, or do you want a robot? easygoing is one thing. saying you would be SHOCKED if your dog said "no thank you" to ANYTHING is, quite frankly, ****ing bullshit. its not a furry stuffed animal. its not a robot. your dog has every right to tell somebody, even you "not now please" or "id like it if you didnt do that". that doesnt mean you dont get the right to sometimes insist "i understand, and im very sorry but this must happen" but saying you would be shocked and floored that your dog dare to have a thought that wasnt complacent and accepting is grossly unfair, to your animal, and to its relationship to you
I'm not sure why this is so bothersome to you. If for YEARS my dog has never growled at someone, and all of a sudden one day did growl at someone, why would that not be shocking/surprising? I'd be shocked if my dog jumped on the counter or excitedly peed when someone came over. Doesn't mean my dog is a robot and I don't let her be a dog or something asinine like that. It means.... I'm surprised you just did that because that's not a reaction you've ever had before. Easy.
__________________
And if all of it is for naught, well at least I took a shot

Juno 2009 :: Happy 2000 :: Lucy 2006 :: Cajun 2013
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 11-19-2013, 11:27 PM
Dogdragoness's Avatar
Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
Nuke it from orbit ...
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gillett/San Antonio TX
Posts: 3,710
Default

I try not to be "shocked" when my dogs do things OOC, because heck I do things that are OOC sometimes :P so I try not to be surprised when they have a "weird" day.
__________________
If there are any typos, it means I am on my phone LOL



Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 11-19-2013, 11:55 PM
Flyinsbt's Avatar
Flyinsbt Flyinsbt is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 886
Default

I am another person who would be quite shocked if my dogs growled at somebody, and for the same reason... it's very out of character, they never have. I would sure want to know what precipitated that odd behavior.

For that matter, I was shocked when my Pirate first growled at his litter sister, Eva. As I recall, we thought it was a fluke at first, and tried again to set them near each other for a photo, but he definitely had a negative opinion of that, so we just have never had the 2 of them out together again. It was shocking because Pirate had never shown any aggression to any other dog, before or since, other than the large mixed breed dog that ran up and threatened my dogs, and he was protecting the girls then. His growl at his sister was unprovoked, as far as we could see, but if he doesn't like her, he doesn't like her, we're not going to force the issue. If he ever growls at another dog, I will not be so shocked, because he's now shown the ability to be selective. I'll be surprised, because it's still not his usual way, but at least there's a precedence.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 11-20-2013, 12:10 AM
*blackrose's Avatar
*blackrose *blackrose is offline
"I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 6,395
Default

As everyone else has said...shocked does not equal dismayed. It just means that it isn't normal for my dogs. My dogs are allowed to express their opinions...but expressing their opinions through growling is NOT normal for them, and it would worry me if it was something that started because it *is* abnormal for them.

Don't get me wrong. Cynder doesn't get her ears blow dried after baths because she has explicitly told me that she does not tolerate it via throwing a fit. She can have that opinion, and we've come to an understanding that she holds still and behaves herself for every other part of the drying process and I won't blow the air on her ears. But say one day she flips out when I trim her nails and she's never done so before - it would surprise me and I'd be looking for a cause. Same would go for if she growled at something.
__________________
Cynder, Daddy's girl Little Lab muttly and Abrams, Momma's boy Chesapeake Bay Retriever
~*~ DOB 1/28/2006 ~*~ DOB 4/11/13 ~*~

Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 11-20-2013, 03:08 AM
Shakou's Avatar
Shakou Shakou is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 769
Default

Charlotte growling at a person would be the equivalent of finding out my grandma is an axe murderer. Yeah, I'd be shocked.
__________________

"Ma'ii is always out there, waiting. And Ma'ii is always hungry." - Navajo proverb
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 11-20-2013, 05:24 AM
Danefied's Avatar
Danefied Danefied is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

do you want a dog, or do you want a robot? easygoing is one thing. saying you would be SHOCKED if your dog said "no thank you" to ANYTHING is, quite frankly, ****ing bullshit. its not a furry stuffed animal. its not a robot. your dog has every right to tell somebody, even you "not now please" or "id like it if you didnt do that". that doesnt mean you dont get the right to sometimes insist "i understand, and im very sorry but this must happen" but saying you would be shocked and floored that your dog dare to have a thought that wasnt complacent and accepting is grossly unfair, to your animal, and to its relationship to you
No, it’s not being shocked that the dog expressed an opinion, it’s having a dog who acts one way his/her entire life and then acts out of character, yes, it would take anyone off guard.

Bates is a rude, PITA, obnoxious dog who has NO issue expression his opinion
He muzzle punches me, has no problem raking a claw down my thigh to get me to get off the sofa and do something with him. He also has a lovely repertoire of growls and whines and even whine/bark to communicate with us that he wants something and he wants it now.
He can be iffy with other dogs, does not put up with rude or stupid at all, he regularly makes puppies widdle on themselves, he can be a big old jerk.

It would not shock me in the least if Bates ended up in a scuffle with another dog and poked some holes in the other dog. It would not shock me in the least if Bates had an issue with other dogs, small furries, hell, even large furries.
However, if he were to growl with displeasure at a human, yes, I would be shocked.

As obnoxious as he is, he is also ridiculously tolerant, has a huge pain threshold, and the patience of a saint. He’s had a visiting kid cartwheel across the room and fall on top of him while he was eating, and his reaction was to grunt as they both crashed to the floor, then he pulled himself out from under said kid, licked the kid’s face, then returned to finishing his meal, completely unperturbed.
Another time on a therapy visit, a patient either seized or had a moment of delusion, and grabbed Bates' thigh hard enough to make him yelp. Again, he yelped and scooted away, but made no move to defend or aggress towards the human. He also recovered from that really quickly, no lasting effects.
We’ve washed out a hole in his side that showed his ribs, picked pieces of wood and dirt out of it, all unrestrained, un-sedated, no pain killers, he whimpered a little () but made absolutely zero move to use teeth or even suggest the use of teeth.

It’s not that he doesn’t have the “right” to react negatively to those situations, it’s just that he never has. So were he to growl in a similar situation, yes it would shock me. Not because I expect robotic compliance from him (good LOL there for anyone who knows me and my dogs), not because I’m being grossly unfair and whatever else you’re accusing us of, but simply because it would be completely out of character for this dog and my experiences with him.

Just as some people seem to have the patience of saints and never get angry, some dogs are the same way. So yeah, if your Mother Teresa neighbor suddenly went off on a rant dropping f-bombs, no matter how “justified” the rant, you would be shocked. Same with those dogs who we’ve never known to have an angry or defensive moment in certain contexts.
__________________
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 11-20-2013, 09:37 AM
frostfell's Avatar
frostfell frostfell is offline
Kung Pow Fish
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
I am another person who would be quite shocked if my dogs growled at somebody, and for the same reason... it's very out of character, they never have. I would sure want to know what precipitated that odd behavior.

For that matter, I was shocked when my Pirate first growled at his litter sister, Eva. As I recall, we thought it was a fluke at first, and tried again to set them near each other for a photo, but he definitely had a negative opinion of that, so we just have never had the 2 of them out together again. It was shocking because Pirate had never shown any aggression to any other dog, before or since, other than the large mixed breed dog that ran up and threatened my dogs, and he was protecting the girls then. His growl at his sister was unprovoked, as far as we could see, but if he doesn't like her, he doesn't like her, we're not going to force the issue. If he ever growls at another dog, I will not be so shocked, because he's now shown the ability to be selective. I'll be surprised, because it's still not his usual way, but at least there's a precedence.
growling is communication, its not aggression. THIS is the mentality that drives me batty about this entire thing. this belief that the dog is being some jerkwad asshole, and not that its communicating a desire for space/cessation of something/whatever. "HOW DARE YOU OBJECT TO SOMETHING I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE HUMAN AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME THOUGHTS AS ME" is all im seeing here, when people flip their **** over their dogs saying "no" to anything. thats all a growl is. a "no"
__________________
"We possess the power
If this should start to fall apart
To mend divides
To change the world
To reach the farthest star
If we should stay silent
If fear should win our hearts
Our light will have long diminished
Before it reaches the farthest star"

-Ronan Harris, NVN Nation
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 11-20-2013, 09:48 AM
Taqroy's Avatar
Taqroy Taqroy is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

do you want a dog, or do you want a robot? easygoing is one thing. saying you would be SHOCKED if your dog said "no thank you" to ANYTHING is, quite frankly, ****ing bullshit. its not a furry stuffed animal. its not a robot. your dog has every right to tell somebody, even you "not now please" or "id like it if you didnt do that". that doesnt mean you dont get the right to sometimes insist "i understand, and im very sorry but this must happen" but saying you would be shocked and floored that your dog dare to have a thought that wasnt complacent and accepting is grossly unfair, to your animal, and to its relationship to you
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
growling is communication, its not aggression. THIS is the mentality that drives me batty about this entire thing. this belief that the dog is being some jerkwad asshole, and not that its communicating a desire for space/cessation of something/whatever. "HOW DARE YOU OBJECT TO SOMETHING I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE HUMAN AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME THOUGHTS AS ME" is all im seeing here, when people flip their **** over their dogs saying "no" to anything. thats all a growl is. a "no"
Are you even reading the same thread as everyone else?

Edited to remove mostly unnecessary snarkiness.
__________________


I have a blog!! TeamShortLegs - Last updated 10/13/2013
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 11-20-2013, 10:00 AM
Emily's Avatar
Emily Emily is offline
Rollin' with my bitches
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,115
Default

I think everyone has been pretty clear that it's not about the dog not being allowed to communicate or have feelings, it's about the dog doing something that's super unusual for that dog, and any time a dog acts way out of the ordinary, especially suddenly, that can warrant concern, as it may indicate a medical issue or other problems.

The dog is allowed to express discomfort. The owner is also allowed to be concerned that the dog is suddenly uncomfortable with something he/she has loved and been very comfortable with previously, because it's a sudden change and it's out of character. Not because the dog is bad or wrong for doing so.

I don't know how to make that any clearer?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 11-20-2013, 10:26 AM
JessLough JessLough is offline
Love My Mutt <3
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 13,239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
growling is communication, its not aggression. THIS is the mentality that drives me batty about this entire thing. this belief that the dog is being some jerkwad asshole, and not that its communicating a desire for space/cessation of something/whatever. "HOW DARE YOU OBJECT TO SOMETHING I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE HUMAN AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME THOUGHTS AS ME" is all im seeing here, when people flip their **** over their dogs saying "no" to anything. thats all a growl is. a "no"
I don't think you're reading the same thread as everybody else. That, or you don't know what shocked means.

If something is out of the ordinary, somebody is going to be shocked. If something is out of the ordinary for somebody's dog, yes, they are going to be shocked. Shocked /= OMG INAPPROPRIATE YOU ARE NEVER EVER EVER ALLOWED TO DO THAT YOU ARE A HUGE ASSHOLE WHO SHOULD DIE, which you seem to think it does.


Once, I took both Ren and Rascal to the vet. They were in the same carrier, which the vets then took to the back to do a basic blood draw on each of them (I had Rosey with me too, it was easier that way). They shortly after brought the carrier back, telling me that Rascal was hissing and guarding and not allowing them to even get their hand into the carrier. I was absolutely shocked. Because Rascal was so "ok, I love you, do whatever you want, friend" to absolutely everybody, it was so very out of character for him. Was it wrong? No, it was HIS CARRIER and strangers were trying to put their hand in it. I was still shocked, since it was so out of character for him. (and, as it turns out, they were talking about Renegade, not Rascal -- who I completely understood that behaviour from).

He was communicating his displeasure, which was shocking, since he just.. never did. Should he have died for it? lol no. Should he have been punished for it? No. But, neither of those are what being shocked means.



If I always went and said hi to a friend when they showed up, without problem, and then one day I went to say hi and they said "you better leave before I punch you in the face", yah, I'm going to be shocked.
__________________
Ella: 3 year old female ferret
Nacho: ~8 year old male ferret

Goodbye, Rosey. You were the best girl I could have asked for. 10/15/96-03/08/13
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 AM.


©1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site