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  #151  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
you are shocked that your dog said "no, not right now"?
If it's something out of the ordinary for your specific dog I don't see any reason NOT to be shocked. Acting like Dizzy is being unreasonable for being surprised that her normally affable dog growled is kind of crappy.

I often am shocked when Murphy hangs out downstairs when we have company. I would be also be shocked if he growled at company when they approached to pet him, it's just not normal behavior for him. I would expect company to respect the growl, but I would still be shocked and you can bet I would investigate the why.
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  #152  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
you are shocked that your dog said "no, not right now"?
Of course I was shocked, I was mortified!!!!! In 8 years she has never said "not right now" to anyone ever. So yes, of course I was shocked. As you can see from my post, I'm pretty certain why it happened, but that doesn't make it any less surprising as it's not like she's never had people come in our house before, or any other plethora of houses for that matter.

The point is no matter how trustworthy your dog is, and no matter how many times it has been in a situation (Bodhi used to come to raves with me. And I'm not talking what today's youth call raves, I'm talking proper raves, she's well socialised with weird loud people) and no matter how chilled out your dog is in those situations THINGS CAN CHANGE. You can't be complacent. I was, but imagine if the person saying hello didn't understand dogs (she has 2 thankfully) and persisted saying hello to her?!

Do I expect Bodhi to growl again at anyone?? No, not really. I think it was a combination of factors on that one night for one. But I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying!

I'm saying dogs are dogs are dogs, and there is always an element of unpredictability, they're not robots and they are FAR more sensitive to unseen signals, body language and energies than we are, and one day a stupidly placid dog (which I'm not claiming Bodhi is by far) could do something you really don't expect.
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  #153  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
you are shocked that your dog said "no, not right now"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Of course I was shocked, I was mortified!!!!! In 8 years she has never said "not right now" to anyone ever. So yes, of course I was shocked.
I would be completely and 110% floored if either of my current dogs EVER growled at someone. Period. Not that they can't growl, or growling would be "inappropriate"....it is just something that neither of them do. It isn't a response I expect from them, and if it ever happened, I would be analyzing the situation seriously to see what sequence of events caused the growl (including my dog's physical and mental health). For my current dogs, growling is not normal and I would not treat it as normal.

But yes, Dizzy is right, a dog is a dog is a dog and they all have their threshold level that can be breached under the right circumstance. Some just have a much, much, much higher threshold than others.
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  #154  
Old 11-19-2013, 05:09 PM
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Penn will actually growl at people who are wearing hoods/ can't clearly see their faces& they are hunched over. Especially once the evening hits.
I have never had anyone try to pat her without asking ..I think she has a large personality& that makes people aware. I also think if someone in a hood spooked her, she would snap. I don't think she'd do damage but she is SUPER protective of me& the car.
I would, however, be shocked if she growled in a normal social situation.

Oddly enough, my VERY human aggressive little Yorkie mix, kids/ adults alike would run up to him to pat/ pick him up/ whatever. We ended up not being able to take him places because he would 100% bite& bite to do damage. I have no doubt that if a kid grabbed him, they would end up needing a new face. He does not love people. But his little size makes people think he must be friendly& I've often had parents tell their children (without asking me) to get pet the little dog to see that some dogs are friendly.. poor Squirt. He especially hates kids.
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  #155  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:26 PM
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I would be pretty dang shocked if either of my dogs growled at someone....
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  #156  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:54 PM
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im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

do you want a dog, or do you want a robot? easygoing is one thing. saying you would be SHOCKED if your dog said "no thank you" to ANYTHING is, quite frankly, ****ing bullshit. its not a furry stuffed animal. its not a robot. your dog has every right to tell somebody, even you "not now please" or "id like it if you didnt do that". that doesnt mean you dont get the right to sometimes insist "i understand, and im very sorry but this must happen" but saying you would be shocked and floored that your dog dare to have a thought that wasnt complacent and accepting is grossly unfair, to your animal, and to its relationship to you
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  #157  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way
IMO the way most people are saying it (and how blackrose already explained it) is that they would be shocked to hear their dog growl because it's out of character for the dog, not saying it would be UNACCEPTABLE if the dog growled, if that makes any sense? I feel like here shocked = surprised, not shocked = dismayed or horrified. Rowan is a grumbler so him growling wouldn't surprise me at all, and Riff growls and barks (mostly barks) at strangers. I would be pretty shocked to hear Riff growl at someone he likes, though, simply because I've never heard him do it before. Doesn't mean that I don't allow him to growl in appropriate situations, if he's stressed/uncomfortable/etc and needs to express it. It would just be very out of character for him. It's like... idk, if my boyfriend told me one day that he desired nothing more than to become an architect. It's not that there's anything WRONG with that, but it came out of left field and would definitely shock me!

I don't think my mom's old dog growled at a person his whole life. I would have been shocked to hear him growl because he was SO tolerant and easygoing. That does not mean, in any way, that he was ever mistreated or deliberately put into uncomfortable situations! It's just... if you accidentally run into Rowan, he'll give a little growl. Baxter never did. It just wasn't his natural reaction. Some dogs are so complacent that it doesn't even seem to occur to them to growl. In the right situation, of course they would, but a dog with a very very high threshold? The owner would probably be surprised.

Unfortunately I know there are people out there who think that growling is unacceptable, but I'd say the vast majority of people here don't believe that.
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  #158  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

do you want a dog, or do you want a robot? easygoing is one thing. saying you would be SHOCKED if your dog said "no thank you" to ANYTHING is, quite frankly, ****ing bullshit. its not a furry stuffed animal. its not a robot. your dog has every right to tell somebody, even you "not now please" or "id like it if you didnt do that". that doesnt mean you dont get the right to sometimes insist "i understand, and im very sorry but this must happen" but saying you would be shocked and floored that your dog dare to have a thought that wasnt complacent and accepting is grossly unfair, to your animal, and to its relationship to you
Haha. They didn't say, "if my dog ever growls, imma kill him immediately!!!" That would be, to quote you, "quite frankly, ****ing bullshit"

Because the dog hasn't ever growled (and it'd be rare if it did!) doesn't mean that the dog is a robot, doesn't have an opinion or has a high tolerance level. There just must be nothin' to growl at! And when the day came that the dog did get upset about something it normally wouldn't....they would be shocked. It's not that shocking. If my husband always happily ate his egg sandwiches for breakfast and one day flipped out and yelled at me for making him an egg sandwich instead of pancakes --- I'd be shocked and dumbfounded!! But then I'd ask him why and life would carry on.


I can't believe I just replied to that.
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  #159  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:07 PM
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Growling doesn't have to be the only way a dog says "no thank you." If you watch dog-dog interaction there are often many steps before even showing teeth is involved, never mind growling and certainly before biting.

Being surprised if a dog jumps several warning signs and goes straight to growling, or even biting, doesn't mean expecting the dog to be a robot or to be entirely complacent. It just means expecting the dog to exhibit normal patterns of behavior, for that dog in particular or the species as a whole, and being surprised when the dog doesn't behave as per usual.

As it happens I believe the whole "dogs are not robots" thing is a point already made in this conversation. That doesn't mean you can't still be surprised when something behaves out of the norm. Even if we WERE talking about machines, if you went out to start your car that has started on the first turn of the key for five years, and then it just didn't start one morning... wouldn't you be surprised?
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  #160  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:44 PM
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I like my predictable dog. If Elsie were so over the map that I wasn't shocked by some things, I'd be pretty unhappy.
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