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  #91  
Old 11-16-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Maybe it didn't make the headlines but it definitely affects the breed negatively in SOME way. It is not just a neutral thing that happened.

I am extremely wary of pit bulls these days for this very reason. I have personally seen too many maul another dog, heard 'responsible pit owners' talk about their dogs killing other dogs, and had too many friends whose dogs were attacked by pit bulls and injured through no fault of their own. My trainer's dog was the most recent case- attacked at a dog show while in the hotel on a leash. They were simply walking out their door and the dog started mauling him. My cousin's pit killed a golden a few years ago. I watched a pit take off half a mastiff's ear and they had to choke him off. Both dogs in that instance were leashed. I know several owners on forums who have admitted their dogs have killed other dogs (and almost with a badge of honor- well my dog is SUPER DA but he's so great with people!). And I could go on. And on.

That kind of stuff definitely has shaped my feelings towards the breed and the way the owners seem to be failing to manage that DA... I have known other dog breeds where individuals have injured/fought with other dogs, but not to the same extent. The end result is that I don't really trust the breed at all. I am so much more aware when around a pit bull and so much more cautious than with most other breeds. It has zip to do with media perception and everything to do with how many bad experiences I've had.

Personally, I would MUCH rather deal with a dog with a somewhat spooky temperament than one who was 'stable with people' that's instincts were to kill other dogs. I'm not sure I'd call that a 'stable dog'. I don't think stability simply has to do with how the dog reacts towards people. A dog that goes off the hilt at another dog for simply being? Not on the top of my list when it comes to stability and safety.

And I hear other people with the same thoughts too, it's not just me. My trainer won't go anywhere without mace and a cattle prod now.

I've had the same experiences and it's very sad. Because I've never been one to be prejudiced towards ANY breed, and I will usually always stand up for a Pit Bull, but I am extremely cautious around them and won't let my little dog go say hello to a Pit Bull that I don't know. And that probably makes me look like 'THAT' person, or a snob, but I can't risk my dogs life after what I've seen some Pit Bulls do, and how I've seen them act in the dog parks around here. There are a lot of "it's all how you raise them" people that attend our dog park who probably make a worse name for pits. But I've seen some very scary body language going on in a lot of pits I see around other dogs.

I have to say that I've never seen a HA pit though. I don't worry about them for my own sake, more just my dog. I am not sure what I would do if my dog was that unpredictable AND a pitbull. I definitely don't envy your situation and feel for the OP.
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  #92  
Old 11-16-2013, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
No matter how vigilant someone is, crap always happens. ALWAYS. That's life. Dogs slip their leads. Leashes break. Muzzles come off. You're tired and your reflexes are just a tad slow that day.
Yes but those things can happen whether you have an HA dog or a DA dog or an intact dog, too. And just because other people put higher value on the life of a dog than a person, it's ok to gamble with other people's dogs lives? "Oh it's ok for me to manage this DA dog, because it's only going to attack another dog, not a person." If that was YOUR dog that got attacked or killed, would you think that the owner keeping/managing a DA dog was responsible?

Again, I don't think managing a dog with issues is necessarily easy, nor is it responsible for every household to do so. If someone or their roommates/family members aren't going to take management seriously then yes, the situation can be dangerous and euthanasia might be the best choice in THOSE circumstances. All I'm saying is not under EVERY circumstance or in every household, just because of a dog's breed.

But at the same time I think it's a really artificial construct to make managing a dog who has bite triggers into some insurmountable obstacle while simultaneously hand-waving DA away because the exact same mistakes can be made with managing and someone is going to pay for it. Just because it would be another dog instead of a person, makes the risk worth it? I truly, honestly cannot internalize this dichotomy.

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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
Also, how do you prevent a determined and unsupervised child from approaching a leashed dog? Body block? Shouting? Kids don't always listen to people telling them to stop, and using most methods that are effective for stopping off leash dogs from approaching will probably get you arrested.
That's exactly what you do. I've only done it twice, but in neither instance did the child persist after I've physically body blocked and yelled DON'T PET MY DOG, nor did the parents complain. They knew they weren't watching their own kids. Not in response to any particular incident, although Pip does have stranger danger and I'm not completely sure how he would react, but I don't allow kids to pet ANY of my dogs without my express permission and in a controlled manner. It's really not that hard if you are willing to stand up to people and be perceived as rude.
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:09 PM
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I've body blocked kids before too. They got the hint right away. If they were robot/zombie kids that keep coming at us despite body blocking/Stop sign hands/ DONTPETMYDOG I'd probably just spin my dog in the other direction and go in the opposite direction.
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  #94  
Old 11-16-2013, 03:18 PM
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You can yell and block as long as your don't put your hands on the kid, I have stepped btw a kid and my dog and yelled (very loud) DONT TOUCH MY "PROPERTY"!!) and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, someone has to teach them to ask before they touch something that belongs to someone else.

Like I said ... I am not a petting zoo.
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  #95  
Old 11-16-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
You're walking your sighthound on leash. Suddenly, a small off-leash dog runs past yours. Your dog snatches it up and kills it. Do you think that this is a "problem" with your dog or whichever sighthound breed it is? Should people be striving to breed this trait out?
Not that I'm part of this thread but... you'll never convince me that predation behavior (sighthounds) is the same as aggressive behavior.

/soapbox
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  #96  
Old 11-16-2013, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
To be honest he sounds like he's not been trained with the best methods and that makes me leery that the OP could really manage handling the dog safely.
I just had to say I agree with the above. I would euthanize this dog but only because after reading the description of the dog and the bite incidents I don't believe the op has the ability to safely manage the dog. That's not meant to be a stab at the op. I believe that there comes a point that you need to take a serious look at your dog, his problems, and your ability to handle those problems. It's hard to say you don't have the skills to handle something like this, especially when you're dogs life is on the line. If I ever thought one of my dogs was a danger to those around me and I want capable of handling it I would have to make that hard decision.
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  #97  
Old 11-16-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
Not that I'm part of this thread but... you'll never convince me that predation behavior (sighthounds) is the same as aggressive behavior.

/soapbox
LOL Yeh I get that one a lot from sighthound people too. Apparently "well that's different" because while their Borzoi would "only" run down and kill the neighbor's toy Poodle if given half a chance, mine would actually run down and kill their Borzoi.

It only "counts" if a dog will engage and potentially dispatch one bigger than it, of course.
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  #98  
Old 11-16-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
LOL Yeh I get that one a lot from sighthound people too. Apparently "well that's different" because while their Borzoi would "only" run down and kill the neighbor's toy Poodle if given half a chance, mine would actually run down and kill their Borzoi.

It only "counts" if a dog will engage and potentially dispatch one bigger than it, of course.
I don't think your APBT's could catch a sight hound ... Just saying.

Prey drive is not the same thing as DA, I have a dog who has a lot of prey drive (actually they all do) and they will kill: rabbits, squirrels, mice, and other varmints and even cats if they are foolish enough to wonder into my yard. But they get along swimmingly with other dogs.
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Old 11-16-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
LOL Yeh I get that one a lot from sighthound people too. Apparently "well that's different" because while their Borzoi would "only" run down and kill the neighbor's toy Poodle if given half a chance, mine would actually run down and kill their Borzoi.

It only "counts" if a dog will engage and potentially dispatch one bigger than it, of course.
So you don't think there is a difference between a dog that would go after a small dog under specific, prey drive triggering circumstances and a highly DA dog that would go after any dog under any circumstance?
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  #100  
Old 11-16-2013, 05:08 PM
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So you don't think there is a difference between a dog that would go after a small dog under specific, prey drive triggering circumstances and a highly DA dog that would go after any dog under any circumstance?
This.

It took some training to convince Josefina that small screaming/ yippy dogs are NOT varmints xD, now she knows they are dogs, so does that mean she is a ticking DA time bomb? Please.
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