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  #11  
Old 09-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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Southpaw Southpaw is online now
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I even let Summer eat a milkbone every now and then! She loves them.

It's a treat... You shouldn't be feedin them tons of crap treats but now and again?
My thoughts exactly. Its a treat. No my dog doesn't need a diet of molasses but do I care if she has it in her treats now and then? Absolutely not. I don't want health food all the time (or any of the time) and I think it's okay for my dogs to have "sweets" now and then too. Pretty sure they're still happy and healthy even with the occasional junk.
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2013, 04:15 PM
Roger Biduk Roger Biduk is offline
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Thumbs up Dogs Are Carnivore and Domesticated Wolves...

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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Just exactly what IS a dogs natural diet?

For one, there isn't ANYTHING natural about a domesticated dog. They're a man made phenomena. They were built, designed, dreamt up by our ancestors for their uses, and I doubt.... I seriously DOUBT that they would have been fed on the prime and scarce meat cuts, cast off etc that you seem to think they were.

They were NOT catching their own prey. They were tools, expendable no doubt at times, and I very, very much doubt... our ancestors gave a hoot if the dogs were eating meals consisting of any old thing.

Feral dogs will scavenge and eat anything. Vegetable matter, meat, sometimes mineral for that matter. It's how dogs have done SO well being our companions.

You talk like dogs have evolved to only eat meat la la la. It simply can't be true, it can't be how they have existed for so many years. I am not talking IDEAL diet. But the diet they've had for hundreds, if not thousands, of years probably wasn't barf or perfectly raw at ALL.

I know what you're saying, but bejesus..... You do know pandas are omnivorous right??? You see what I'm saying with that right??? They don't just eat bamboo!!! You understand what I am saying here, don't you??? Physiology doesn't always dictate behaviour. Absolute and utter FACT.

So to say a "dogs natural diet", is actually pretty laughable on a zoological level... What IS a dogs natural diet I ask you???? Where are these natural dogs???


Signed dizzy, BSc (hons) applied zoology and BA social work
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Aged 32 and a 1/4.
Being a court-recognized expert on canine/feline nutrition in six civil cases (so far), this is a subject I do know a thing or two about.

Regarding your comment ”there isn't ANYTHING natural about a domesticated dog”; actually, almost nothing has changed very much in the last 40 million years or so and there’s EVERYTHING natural about a domesticated dog now as there was then, both inside and out.
The webpage I wrote " Your Dog Is a Carnivore And a Domesticated Wolf " covers most points regarding this.

Regarding pandas, you’re confusing the taxonomic/phylogenetic term “carnivora” which defines a group of mammals all descended from a common ancestor with the general term carnivore (meat eater).
The common ancestor of carnivora was undoubtedly carnivorous but there are now several that aren’t strictly carnivores such as pandas, kinkajou, olingos, coatis, raccoons, etc.

The surviving pandas are the descendants of those that turned to bamboo in desperation. They are carnivores because they have the carnivore sharp teeth, gut bacteria and shortened gut - entirely wrong for a herbivorous lifestyle. They have to eat bamboo almost every waking hour to get enough food to survive and they die once their inadequate teeth are worn out.
Panda's will eat meat if they come across it. At some time in the recent past they were predators but their prey animals - whatever they were - must have disappeared or become too difficult for the panda to catch.

All lineages are free to evolve on their own and many have drifted away from “carnivory” but the domesticated dog is not one of them... the only reason people say they have is because of bad veterinarians who either are ignorant, know nothing about cat/dog nutrition, are unethical or all three along with companies making very low-quality commercial pet foods containing ingredients that may be dangerous at best and toxic at worst (saying grains, corn, soy, wheat, etc. are more "natural" for a dog than meat) along with those wonderful folks at “Big Pharma”.

85%-100% of a dog’s diet should be from a balanced, raw meat diet for optimum health but with almost all pet owners, that’s certainly not the case (less than 3% feed raw)... which is why up to 90% of all illness and disease in cats/dogs are now diet related.

A dog's natural diet is pretty close to 49% protein, 45% fat and only 6% carbohydrates; I wrote about this in another thread, saying “just go to show how bad most commercial pet foods really are with most being low in protein and super-high in carbs, with some "Prescription Diets" recommended and sold by most veterinarians containing up to 60% carbohydrates, 900% more than needed!... this is the main reasons for so many degenerative illness and disease caused by diet in cats/dogs”.

Other good articles include:

The Canine Ancestral Diet

The Ancestral Diet For Dogs

Further Thoughts on Pet Foods by Natasha Kassell, VMD
Roger Biduk
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2013, 06:31 PM
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Airn Airn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Biduk View Post
Being a court-recognized expert on canine/feline nutrition in six civil cases (so far), this is a subject I do know a thing or two about.

Regarding your comment ”there isn't ANYTHING natural about a domesticated dog”; actually, almost nothing has changed very much in the last 40 million years or so and there’s EVERYTHING natural about a domesticated dog now as there was then, both inside and out.
The webpage I wrote " Your Dog Is a Carnivore And a Domesticated Wolf " covers most points regarding this.

Regarding pandas, you’re confusing the taxonomic/phylogenetic term “carnivora” which defines a group of mammals all descended from a common ancestor with the general term carnivore (meat eater).
The common ancestor of carnivora was undoubtedly carnivorous but there are now several that aren’t strictly carnivores such as pandas, kinkajou, olingos, coatis, raccoons, etc.

The surviving pandas are the descendants of those that turned to bamboo in desperation. They are carnivores because they have the carnivore sharp teeth, gut bacteria and shortened gut - entirely wrong for a herbivorous lifestyle. They have to eat bamboo almost every waking hour to get enough food to survive and they die once their inadequate teeth are worn out.
Panda's will eat meat if they come across it. At some time in the recent past they were predators but their prey animals - whatever they were - must have disappeared or become too difficult for the panda to catch.

All lineages are free to evolve on their own and many have drifted away from “carnivory” but the domesticated dog is not one of them... the only reason people say they have is because of bad veterinarians who either are ignorant, know nothing about cat/dog nutrition, are unethical or all three along with companies making very low-quality commercial pet foods containing ingredients that may be dangerous at best and toxic at worst (saying grains, corn, soy, wheat, etc. are more "natural" for a dog than meat) along with those wonderful folks at “Big Pharma”.

85%-100% of a dog’s diet should be from a balanced, raw meat diet for optimum health but with almost all pet owners, that’s certainly not the case (less than 3% feed raw)... which is why up to 90% of all illness and disease in cats/dogs are now diet related.

A dog's natural diet is pretty close to 49% protein, 45% fat and only 6% carbohydrates; I wrote about this in another thread, saying “just go to show how bad most commercial pet foods really are with most being low in protein and super-high in carbs, with some "Prescription Diets" recommended and sold by most veterinarians containing up to 60% carbohydrates, 900% more than needed!... this is the main reasons for so many degenerative illness and disease caused by diet in cats/dogs”.

Other good articles include:

The Canine Ancestral Diet

The Ancestral Diet For Dogs

Further Thoughts on Pet Foods by Natasha Kassell, VMD
Roger Biduk
Okay well obviously we disagree on.several fronts.

I do not believe dogs are simply domesticated wolves. I've done my own research and honestly several scientists are of the same opinion. Regurgitating the same information does nothing. We realize you think you know everything. Some people agree with you. Many of us here do not. We can supply studies and books which say the opposite of what you say. It does not make us 'right', it just shows the variety of opinions that revolve around dogs.

Its great that you're so passionate but you don't need to be an ass.
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:14 PM
ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
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Inside a pugs skull is the same as a wolfs? Interesting.
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  #15  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:17 PM
Roger Biduk Roger Biduk is offline
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Originally Posted by Airn View Post
Okay well obviously we disagree on.several fronts.

I do not believe dogs are simply domesticated wolves. I've done my own research and honestly several scientists are of the same opinion. Regurgitating the same information does nothing. We realize you think you know everything. Some people agree with you. Many of us here do not. We can supply studies and books which say the opposite of what you say. It does not make us 'right', it just shows the variety of opinions that revolve around dogs.

Its great that you're so passionate but you don't need to be an ass.
That's the thing about these forums, ignorant people like you... ass indeed.... yawn... and I only work with facts... go tell the Smithsonian they're wrong and present them with your "facts" and scientists... their phone number is 202-633-1100; let me know how it goes...
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  #16  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:32 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Roger, where did you go to school? What is your title? What legal cases have you been involved with? You offered up this information as some form of backing to your claim and yet you haven't sited the details.

Why do you feel it is many dogs live so long and happily on mediocre diets? Why do so many experience issues at a young age? Can a good diet counteract bad genes?

Why do you post on this forum only about food? Do you have dogs? Do you fancy them as pets? Do you have experience in sporting? Are they merely an experiment in nutrition?
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  #17  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Biduk View Post
That's the thing about these forums, ignorant people like you... ass indeed.... yawn... and I only work with facts... go tell the Smithsonian they're wrong and present them with your "facts" and scientists... their phone number is 202-633-1100; let me know how it goes...
No, this doesn't work.

You came onto this forum from the get go and didn't become part of the community, you didn't share stories about your dogs or comment people's pictures or lives, you made no attempt to integrate yourself onto here.

All you did was come on here, soap box in place, ego firmly attached and talked down to everyone on here. You tried to flood us with your intelligence (Read: condescension), stated everything as hard proven fact and vary rarely even answered the question posed.

You are passionate about nutrition? Good. We like passion here. What we don't like are egotistical jerks that speak down to the general populace on this board, don't try to engage in any civil discussion and treat the majority on here like ignorant drones that need saving from ourselves.

Post about your dog(s), join conversation, actually DISCUSS dog food and nutrition and you'll find people will be a lot more open to having a dialogue with you about things instead of the overall response you're getting now which is "Oh, that Roger person is posting. Roll eyes, skim and dismiss."
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  #18  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:58 PM
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Roger Biduk is the president of a pet food company.

http://www.bestcatanddognutrition.com/investors/

It's kinda like trusting what Hills has to say about nutrition.
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  #19  
Old 09-11-2013, 05:04 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Roger Biduk is the president of a pet food company.

http://www.bestcatanddognutrition.com/investors/

It's kinda like trusting what Hills has to say about nutrition.
Oh, classy. No wonder he behaves like Fred Hassen(founder and used car salesman of sit means sit franchises) on training forums.
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  #20  
Old 09-11-2013, 05:07 PM
ruffiangirl ruffiangirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Roger Biduk is the president of a pet food company.

http://www.bestcatanddognutrition.com/investors/

It's kinda like trusting what Hills has to say about nutrition.
Correction, he is the president of a pet food company looking for investors...by the way he talks down to people I have a feeling he will be looking for investors for a very long long time...asshat.
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