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Old 08-12-2013, 10:49 AM
casey82 casey82 is offline
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Default Papillons

Talk to me about Papillons. I'm looking for an agility dog that can do obedience and conformation as well. Why should I choose a Pap over a border collie or another breed?

Feel free to give other general information about Pap awesomeness as well.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:23 AM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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Personally I am not a big fan of why one breed is better than another. BCs and paps are both great breeds and both can do well in agility. Obviously they have different sizes and temperaments. Border collies are the most common agility dog for a reason but papillons are probably the most (or at least one of) common small dog in the upper levels of the sport. There was a good comparisons of the 8" champion pap vs the 22 (or 26" can't remember ) champ border collie at akc nationals and the two were very close in time to each other with most the difference in the teeter. Teeter tips slower for small dogs obviously.

You should get a pap because you want a pap. Not because of border collies or anything like that. My dogs get compared to BCs all the time and its not a fair comparison. I've known people that go either way- hate BCs and love paps or hate living with paps but love BCs.

My dogs are great little dogs to train. They're fun and eager to do anything. They tend to stick very close and are naturally very biddable. They are happy and up kinds of dogs and seem ready for anything. They pick things up fast. I find them hilarious and a lot of fun to work with. All of mine have had great food drive but toy drive varies.

We were watching obedience and a pap took the first spot in the advanced group over the larger dogs. But that doesn't mean they're the 'best' choice however they are certainly dogs capable of high level obedience and agility if you want to pursue that. So are border collies.

Companionship is where I enjoy them the most though and what their calling is. I wouldn't have any breed just for sports, I want to enjoy their temperament as my buddies first and foremost.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:37 AM
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Sorry not meaning to sound snarky at all. I really am not kidding when I say I cannot to to a dog event without someone telling me how papillons are little border collies and its just not true. Yes they are more biddable than most dogs. Yes they are super handler oriented. Yes they are seen and excelling a lot more often than most toy dogs in performance rings. Yes they tend to be med- high energy. But not border collies.

I adore both breeds and know many people that do and own both. I've also met a handful of people that don't like both.

I think in general with sports you need to pick a dog you like and enjoy vs one that will just do well. I mean... Sports are a consideration but not the whole picture or even the main one for most people. I wouldn't focus on which breed is 'best' at a sport. Just if they would enjoy your lifestyle (sports being a part of that) and if you like and enjoy the breed.

If you do have any papillon questions ask away.

Eta: I do realize why people compare the two and that it is meant as a compliment. I have a hard time accurately describing paps sometimes. They do typically have a real desire to work and do things that you don't always see in other toy dogs. Too many people see a cute fluffy little dog and assume low energy and not much work, which isn't my experience. They can be very adaptable but they will very much enjoy more activity and work. I am still often wowed by how a sweet little dog like Summer really can turn it on for agility.

Ack long posts.
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Last edited by Laurelin; 08-12-2013 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:03 PM
casey82 casey82 is offline
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Default Papillons

I guess I should say what breed is better for me? (I know you can't answer that ). Since I've gotten my dog I'm really becoming a small dog person. I love that my dog is small but can pretty much do anything a big dog can do. I was dead set on getting a Golden as my my next dog (I still want one by the way). I really like everything I hear about Paps. I also like that they are small and easy to travel with on a plane in the cabin if necessary. I just want to learn everything I can about them, but I really like them.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:14 PM
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Size just depends on what you want. As far as agility goes both small and medium dogs can do very well. Obedience and rally is the same. Now you will be limited in some sports by size but not the ones you've listed. In real life here's upsides and downsides. I don't do dog parks because they're so small. Flip side- they take up less space and cost less. I traveled with mine and lived in an apartment and their size was convenient. Raw feeding non premade/grinds is difficult and you do have to worry about training session calories more. Also some trainers struggle somewhat with toy dogs since theyre used to larger ones. But I find it evens out- some exercises are much easier for my dogs than the big ones and some are harder. Just depends.

Really the biggest downside with size is that they can't play tag with the Belgians and Aussies if they set them on a group run. They are fine working around and just hanging out wih large dogs but in a pack could get trampled. Play dates are with similarly sized dogs.
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Last edited by Laurelin; 08-12-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 08-12-2013, 02:04 PM
casey82 casey82 is offline
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I say I want a big dog, but everything about the Pap intrigues me. Also, i find I'm really enjoying my current dog's 13 pounds. There also is breeder near me that I really like. I guess it's really kind of a no brainer. I appreciate your opinion.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:19 PM
SpaceJam SpaceJam is offline
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I've always admired Papillions agility.
Neat little dogs.
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