Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:29 AM
Aleron's Avatar
Aleron Aleron is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,270
Default

I agree that I'd first review the sending concept with the dogs. Get them fast, excited and solid with sending to a food bowl at least 15' away from you before doing any more weave training. If you can't send your dog forward, teaching weaves with any method will be more challenging.

Then, I'd probably take a different approach. I'd set up "channels" of other things and practice sends that way. Still no actual weaves. So set up an expen a couple feet from a wall to make a long chute and work on your sends there. If they don't get it right away, move closer to the food bowl in the chute. You might have to get really close to the target at first, then gradually work your way back. When the dog has mastered that, try it in a different location. Or with different barriers. Experiment with how narrow it the channel can be. This both teaches the dog the idea and takes the pressure off this being the serious business of teaching agility Really though, it allows you to teach the concept of running down a chute without having to worry that you're going to mess up on a behavior that is more important to you. Easier on the dog and the handler!

I really think if you spend a few weeks working on that stuff the channel weaves will work just fine for you. Your dogs probably just don't understand what they are supposed to do with this obstacle and may need some more work on forward focus/sending. Once your dogs are good on the non-weaving chutes, set up a weave chute wider than you think you need and give it a try. If they don't send through it, do what you did with the non-weaving chute - move down closer to the target. You may start with sending from just the first two or four poles to the target (or you could set up a 4 pole chute) then gradually work your way back.

And don't feel bad about where your dogs are in training. Savvy still doesn't have totally solid weaves because...well weaves are probably my least favorite thing to train so I tend to not work on them as much as I should. It's just more fun to work on wraps and sequences and contacts and tricks and heeling and...and.... I was just thinking tonight that I really need to devote some time every day to working on weaves with him I use a combination of WAMs and channels and have dabbled in 2x2. I think I'm a bit too ADD for 2x2s LOL I've tried, really I have but it just doesn't hold my interest past Day 3 or so. It does seem to me that 2x2s work best for very toy driven dogs (and maybe for handlers who are very organized and systematic in their approach to training). I'm not really a fan of adding guides to channels because then you have to wean them off of those while also getting them to do straight poles. It works for some people/dogs though. You can find people who've successfully trained weaves with all variety of methods for sure.
__________________
Nikki & the Herding Breed Variety Pack
Visit Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Alerondogs
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:36 AM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
What kind of guides did you use?

I'm having one of those days where I feel like a shitty trainer. I need a drink. lol
Well your in good company because I am pretty sure we have all felt like that at one time or another.

Did you know that 15 yrs ago the general consensus was that it took AT LEAST a year or more to train a dog to weave? Recently because of some methods, that time frame has been shortened to a scary short period of time for those that have the experience or have a trainer that can help them do that.
The bad part about the successes of some to get those stellar weaves so fast is that some folks might feel pressured or a failure when they struggle with weave training or it takes longer. Imo, it still takes the average first time agility handler and dog a year (give or take a bit) to learn weaves. And that means being dedicated to teaching weaves with no long breaks in between.

Training weaves is HARD and probably one of the easiest obstacles to mess up on because of the frustrations. Good news is there is a light at the end of the tunnel (pardon the pun), they can be fixed.

BB is right there is no one way and it would be in the handlers best interest to have a good understanding of each method before deciding which method to use. But that isn't always an option either for some

I personally love 2x2's for me and my dogs..........but I do own full sets of channels, WHAM, 2x2's and straight poles to either train or solve problems for myself or students
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:06 AM
k9krazee's Avatar
k9krazee k9krazee is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,187
Default

I've used sections of mesh garden fencing* cut in 4ft (?) sections and knee high. Then I added round shower curtain rings on the edges so they slide over the poles. The sections are flexible and big enough that it doesn't create a tight channel so they aren't relying on the guide but it does make it the success rate very high.

I keep the entrance one up for a long time but the middle pieces can be removed or alternated early on.

*

I have switched to wire guides (metal coat hangers unwound -- lol --- but don't really recommend it.
__________________

Crossbone - 2011 Cattle Pirate | Jack - 2004 Beaglador
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-23-2013, 05:51 PM
Kyllobernese's Avatar
Kyllobernese Kyllobernese is offline
Big Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: B.C., Canada
Posts: 141
Default

When I started weaves with Remmy, they were closer together but now they are at 24 inches it took him a while to get the rhythm, I also found I was having trouble getting him to hit the first pole until someone on the internet advised me to act like there was another pole before the first one and that worked as I had kept pushing him toward the second pole.

With Lucy, I am training her with the channel. I have not closed it up completely yet as she was not really old enough so just practiced running the channel. I am not good at throwing straight so what I ended up doing was putting her fuzzy with the treat in it at the end of the channel, walking back with her and sending her down the channel. I have had the channel closed up enough that she is starting to give a bit of a wiggle but I am looking forward to moving another step ahead.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-23-2013, 05:57 PM
MandyPug's Avatar
MandyPug MandyPug is offline
Sport Model Pug
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,244
Default

Izzie learned with 2x2s and me throwing her goodie container. She did well with that. Then I sharpened them up with gates over the winter as I really wanted a way to make her extremely successful and solidify her job. Her weaves are pretty good and they're fast and accurate unless I'm stressy. She's a sensitive gal.

Small dog tip: Know where your feet are. That's what your tiny dogs are largely going to see and follow, much moreso than your upperbody/arms.
__________________

Izzie the Wonderpug RA AGIS AGJIS MADC AGDC MSDC CGN

The Proudest Pug
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-23-2013, 06:00 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

That's a great tip and exactly what helped fix my medium size dog weave entrances.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:59 AM
ForestPhin ForestPhin is offline
Active Pup
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
Default weave progress?

Hi there,

I'm new here! Was reading through this thread and wondering where the OP is at and if she was able to get any video of their progress?

I think Aleron nailed it--the dogs need to understand the concept of how to drive away from you first before you can really train this specific skill. Driving away from you is essential in agility handling as well so its an important skill to have. I also love the ex-pens idea--very smart!!!

I have dogs with very good (my 1st agility dog) and awesome (my 2nd dog) weaves. My first dog was only trained on channels in the beginning. He did okay with them, but never understood the concept of difficult entries. I did go back once I got more educated and added in some 2x2 work and it definitely improved his entries. My younger dog has excellent, independent weaves, I was complimented on them just last week! I trained him using both 2x2s and channels.

The 2x2s develop the concept of how to enter from ANY direction, and the channels teach them to DRIVE with speed down all the way to the end.

I also think WAMs are good for footwork if you can get your hands on some, but they're not the only tool I'd use.

Personally, I am not a fan of the guides, though I know some people who have said they help smaller dogs... I dunno, I dont like anything that has a "prop" you have to fade.

My disclaimer--I have taught foundation agility classes--and I will say that 2x2s were an extremely difficult concept for my students to grasp. And this was over the course of me teaching them for at least a year! Your timing of the marker (clicker/verbal) and reward delivery has to be excellent to really make it stick. That said, I dont think you should give up. Slow it down, and like others have said, I think lumping and not sticking with one method may be the problem. That Mary Ellen-Barry article is very good, I would be sure to download that if you have not already. I also think a private lesson if you can swing it is a good idea.

Am interested in an update and/or any video if you have it!
__________________
"A really companionable and indispensable dog is an accident of nature. You can't get it by breeding for it, and you can't buy it with money. It just happens along."
- E B White, The Care and Training of a Dog
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-03-2013, 03:11 PM
MafiaPrincess's Avatar
MafiaPrincess MafiaPrincess is offline
Obvious trollsare Obvious
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 6,134
Default

Laurelin.. How are your weaves now? Improving or taking a training hiatus on them? I took a break with Arson for a bit as I too was getting frustrated.
__________________

Stop paddling your own douchecanoe

CRB Houdini's Apple Cider RXMCL AGDC AADC MSDC MJDC RNT CL3-F CL3-H EXJ Bronze
AAC's Top Dog List ~~ 2007-11 Q's ~~ 2008-11 Q's ~~ 2009-10 Q's
AAC's Overall Top Dog List - 47 Q's and 7 Titles


Stanton Acres Out Of The Ashes SGDC RNMCL MJDC ADC CL3-F CL3-S CL3-H SD-S (SP)
AAC's Top Dog List 2009 - 12 Q's

Stark Naked Burn It To The Ground

Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-03-2013, 03:42 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is online now
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,785
Default

Honestly I gun it up for a few months. Initially I jut wanted to wait till after the trial but ended up going longer. Restarted them with my new trainer and slightly tweaked channel weaves. We've only done 3 sessions in class and 1 at the park. It's been so hot outside that I don't want to do much till the girls are not complaining about the heat so much. Lol

I got guides but haven't used them yet.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old Papillon)
Hank - (approx. 10 month old Spotty Dog)
Summer TG3 TIAD - (10 year old Papillon)
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-03-2013, 03:49 PM
MafiaPrincess's Avatar
MafiaPrincess MafiaPrincess is offline
Obvious trollsare Obvious
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 6,134
Default

I swear I'm not stalking you today. I just haven't been forum active and you've posted stuff I actually wanted to read

How's the new trainer working out?
__________________

Stop paddling your own douchecanoe

CRB Houdini's Apple Cider RXMCL AGDC AADC MSDC MJDC RNT CL3-F CL3-H EXJ Bronze
AAC's Top Dog List ~~ 2007-11 Q's ~~ 2008-11 Q's ~~ 2009-10 Q's
AAC's Overall Top Dog List - 47 Q's and 7 Titles


Stanton Acres Out Of The Ashes SGDC RNMCL MJDC ADC CL3-F CL3-S CL3-H SD-S (SP)
AAC's Top Dog List 2009 - 12 Q's

Stark Naked Burn It To The Ground

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site