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  #101  
Old 04-29-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
I think vasectomies and ovary-sparing spays should be default. Spay and neuter only if hormones are REALLY a problem or for true medical reasons. Your average BYB/mixed breed dog that most people own are usually unhealthy enough as it is.
I'm assuming you're talking about humans, and I agree. You seem to forget what I do for a living

Having reproductive organs is a responsibility most people can't handle.

However, human rights dictate we should keep them, and that I do agree with.

However, a dog? Most people don't have a frigging clue. And there's TONS of educational information out there. When you work in society you realise which bits filter in and which bits don't.

You only care about the info you're interested in and to most people, dogs are something nice to have in the home.

Therefore, ill always promote spaying and neutering and if you bother to educate yourself otherwise, then good. Then you pass the test and can own an intact dog

Regardless, my bitch is spayed and that's my choice. However, I think I'd pass the test to own an intact bitch should I want to

I don't think there should be laws to spay, but I certainly believe it should be promoted and people should opt out of that properganda by doing their own research. If you don't research or educate yourself to make an informed choice, then your loss. And I'll tell you to spay your dog.

Too many accidents, strays, rehomes, impulse buys, clueless owners. When that changes perhaps people should be offered the courtesy of not being treated like a moron who allows their dog to breed willy nilly.
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  #102  
Old 04-29-2013, 02:17 PM
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This.

Plus education. I don't like propaganda or trying to withhold information from people because it's assumed they aren't capable of handling it. Its hard to get honest information about altering even when you put in the effort to try to research the best route for you and your dog. You're hit with half/stretched truths and scare tactics from every direction.
Except those of us who work in the pet industry with the general pet owning public know what happens with most of those dogs who you give education to. They end up breeding because someone told them their dog is just to cute and should have puppies! And that one litter becomes two and then five and then you have a crap ton of poorly bred pug puppies everywhere with health problems.

It's a fine line between giving the information and really pushing the realities of bringing those lives into this world with their crap bred walking health problems.
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  #103  
Old 04-29-2013, 02:21 PM
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And without being... Err generalising. Most people don't really care about the education side. They just want a bloody dog.

I'd rather they just owned a desexed bloody dog.

If they want to get into dogs as a hobby, then they earn the right to own an intact dog.

See where I'm going?

Spay spay spay spay.

If you want to be in the exclusive non spaying educated lot, then I will throw a blummin party otherwise. Do it!

Then maybe (maybe) people wont have so many friggin puppies!

Also, throw out tons of info about why not to breed. Once that sinks in, people can do what they want maybe give it.... What 10000000 years?
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  #104  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:28 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I'm assuming you're talking about humans, and I agree. You seem to forget what I do for a living

Having reproductive organs is a responsibility most people can't handle.

However, human rights dictate we should keep them, and that I do agree with.

However, a dog? Most people don't have a frigging clue. And there's TONS of educational information out there. When you work in society you realise which bits filter in and which bits don't.
Nope, I'm talking about dogs. See where assuming gets you? Vasectomies and ovary-sparing spays are real things in DOGS, and are much healthier. It still results in a sterilised dog, which is the only reason you seem to be advocating spaying and neutering. You seem to forget there are health implications involved when you remove important hormones. I don't know what you do for a living and I'm not entirely sure I care.


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Regardless, my bitch is spayed and that's my choice.
Funny, many people have intact bitches. Or bitches with ovaries and no uterus. And that's THEIR choice.

One of my dogs has testicles. That's MY choice. The other one doesn't. That wasn't my choice. He will likely need testosterone injections in the future.
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  #105  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MandyPug View Post
Except those of us who work in the pet industry with the general pet owning public know what happens with most of those dogs who you give education to. They end up breeding because someone told them their dog is just to cute and should have puppies! And that one litter becomes two and then five and then you have a crap ton of poorly bred pug puppies everywhere with health problems.

It's a fine line between giving the information and really pushing the realities of bringing those lives into this world with their crap bred walking health problems.
I agree with this, scare tactics in most cases are the way to go but yeah if your dog is a pet & nothing else ... It should be spayed or neutered.
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  #106  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:39 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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I'm one for uneducated owners opting to spay/neuter is better that leaving the dogs intact.

I receive calls all the time (even one today) asking questions about why their intact female dog has bloody discharge, if they need to wear anything, should they just keep them outside during this, or they don't know that this means they can get preggers. Or how about the person who assumed that their littermate dogs (one boy, one girl) couldn't reproduce. People are stupid. Some people just need to be told that this is the best option for their situation. If they have additional questions, fine, information is great and I would love for everyone to be able to make informed decisions. But the majority of our clients just want to be told what to do, when to do it and not worry about the extra stuff.
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  #107  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Nope, I'm talking about dogs. See where assuming gets you? Vasectomies and ovary-sparing spays are real things in DOGS, and are much healthier. It still results in a sterilised dog, which is the only reason you seem to be advocating spaying and neutering. You seem to forget there are health implications involved when you remove important hormones. I don't know what you do for a living and I'm not entirely sure I care.




Funny, many people have intact bitches. Or bitches with ovaries and no uterus. And that's THEIR choice.

One of my dogs has testicles. That's MY choice. The other one doesn't. That wasn't my choice. He will likely need testosterone injections in the future.
Wow, someone's sense of humour left the building! Grab your coats! Jeeeeeeez. If you were my other half I'd ask if you were having your period but you're not, so ill skip over that.

Think you're being a bit naive thinking most people care about dogs health. If they did they wouldn't let them stray or breed them

I still think you're missing my point entirely.

It's not about freedom of choice. It's about risk assessment. And understanding joe public.

I would LOVE a world were dog owners were all responsible and kept their intact dogs healthy and didn't allow them to breed. They aren't and they do. Most byb's are totally ignorant, they're not monsters.

I think the health implications of spaying vs over population and breeding warrant promoting spaying.

And..... The funny thing is, your argument isn't making me change my mind... Why do you think it is going to stop people breeding their dogs?

It's not. So lets just stop them being able to breed. Easy peasy.

Lol, your response is so venomous it actually made me do a lol a proper one, not an Internet one
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #108  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:50 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Why do you think it is going to stop people breeding their dogs?
Because it's impossible for a dog to reproduce when males are vasectomised and females don't have a uterus. Absolutely impossible. Sure, they can go through the motions, but it will not make puppies. THAT is why it will stop people breeding their dogs.
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  #109  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Because it's impossible for a dog to reproduce when males are vasectomised and females don't have a uterus. Absolutely impossible. Sure, they can go through the motions, but it will not make puppies. THAT is why it will stop people breeding their dogs.
I'm so confused.

So you agree dogs should be altered, you're just debating how they should be done.......?

The how doesn't interest me as much as the just blooming get it done. I'm not going to drain myself offering alternatives to people who probably don't care, and many can't afford it... Let them decide that themselves.

Or I'll leave you to fly that flag
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #110  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:58 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I'm so confused.

So you agree dogs should be altered, you're just debating how they should be done.......?
I'm not so sure you'd pass that test you want to give yourself

I want the hormone-makers left in place. But the boy half of the seed needs to not get to the girl and/or the girl needs to not have a place for the baby to grow.

There's a big difference between ovaries and testicles being left in but unable to reproduce, and taking full organ systems that produce important chemicals out completely.

I find it hilarious that you're agreeing with me and arguing with me because you can't comprehend what I'm saying. Also, you have an intact male.
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