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  #161  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
I like it a lot! I did it previous to behavior medication with Frodo and just ended up frustrated and got nowhere, I couldn't even count to 5 out loud before he would shut down and slink off the mat.

After starting meds we went through a period of him offering relaxed positions when he wasn't actually relaxed at all. Eventually we got to actual relaxing.

I'm excited about the prospect of actually being able to take it on the road now that the weather is getting nice. I think taking frodo's mat along and tossing it on the ground when we see another dog is going to do wonders for him. He functions so much better when he is in work mode and knows what is expected of him.
Kinda weird, but would you mind videoing one of the sessions. I'd like to see Frodo and just watch the body languange and how you're rewarding, etc. Weird, I know. I have the recordings for Relaxation Protocol. I'd just like to be able to have a visual.
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  #162  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:37 PM
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I'm working hard with Fable on her impulse control. Right now I am so glad I bought Control Unleashed for the exercises even though I don't do agility (at the moment).
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  #163  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:41 PM
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I'm doing something wrong!

Dixie is now offering sit to be let out of her crate but she still doesn't offer it in general. I'm trying to capture sit and down when she goes to the dog bed to lie down but I haven't captured behaviors in quite a while so I'm a little slow... she also does this adorable bow/stretch thing I'm more successful at capturing than sit and down.
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  #164  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
I'm doing something wrong!

Dixie is now offering sit to be let out of her crate but she still doesn't offer it in general. I'm trying to capture sit and down when she goes to the dog bed to lie down but I haven't captured behaviors in quite a while so I'm a little slow... she also does this adorable bow/stretch thing I'm more successful at capturing than sit and down.
I'm not big on capturing, I admit, but I'm not sure why you're trying to capture these behaviours. If you don't feel like luring, why not try shaping instead?

Either way, try bringing the dog into a boring room like a bathroom and closing the door, creating a captive audience. That's the kind of environment I'd try to use if I were attempting this.
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  #165  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
Kinda weird, but would you mind videoing one of the sessions. I'd like to see Frodo and just watch the body languange and how you're rewarding, etc. Weird, I know. I have the recordings for Relaxation Protocol. I'd just like to be able to have a visual.
Sure! When I initially started doing RP I was rewarding for both when each task was complete, as well as whenever I saw relaxed body language (soft eyes, big sighs, etc.) but the veterinary behaviorist recommended stopping the latter, especially since he will "fake" relaxed positions a lot. She also said that the science behind the protocol is meant to work with rewarding after each task, not when they offer those things.

Frodo will still offer things like head down on the mat, but I just reward when the task is finished, no matter what he is doing. Sometimes he will stand up, or even meander off the mat, I just continue rewarding at the end of each task (putting the food on the mat as if he was still there) and we will mosey back onto the mat and lie back down. I do this because I know as he is getting up and moseying off that it is in a relaxed state, and I think that is better than when he is on the mat, staring me down I'M WORKING I'M WORKING!! Because he shouldn't be working, he should be relaxing!

Over time, by just rewarding the mat and ignoring what Frodo is doing, I have seen a huge reduction in his thinking the mat means work. When we started (after meds) he would glue his head to the mat and his little nub would just wag continually, because WE ARE WORKING! Now it is like, he chooses to be on the mat and do nothing and be fed, rather than wandering off and doing nothing and not being fed. Does that make sense? I don't know if what I'm trying to get across is coming through with this.

I will try and video in the next few days, I need to find my memory card, lol. And I will see if I can scrounge up one of our old videos so that you can see the difference.
Also, I will video Siri as well. It's amazing (to me at least) how fast she picks up the idea of "Oh hey, I'm just supposed to chill. Cool!" It was in our very first session.
Ah, the difference between working with an operant "normal" puppy, and a dog whose world is continually falling apart and being rebuilt.
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  #166  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekah View Post
I'm not big on capturing, I admit, but I'm not sure why you're trying to capture these behaviours. If you don't feel like luring, why not try shaping instead?

Either way, try bringing the dog into a boring room like a bathroom and closing the door, creating a captive audience. That's the kind of environment I'd try to use if I were attempting this.
It's not a behavior she really does, and she's just learning how to learn... shaping hasn't been going all that well. Sessions are still super, super short and mostly involve eye contact, nose-to-hand targeting, and being okay with me touching her.

She's easily frightened and shut down by me being too excited about anything and is petrified of me doing anything that involves play. Reaching over her in any fashion usually results in sad dog eyes and possibly bolting. Much more than I bargained for, that's for sure.

I'm always open to advice, and I can try to record a "shaping" session today if that'll help! She's definitely the most challenging foster I've had yet because just getting her to eat reliably was hard. Any contact used to send her to the floor... she did not think petting was a good thing. Now she demands to be pet whenever she comes out of her kennel but can still be weird about it when it's unsolicited.

She actually reminds me a lot of a retired greyhound, but without all the good people exposure they get.
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  #167  
Old 04-22-2013, 03:14 PM
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Well, apparently "regular" canned food and squeeze cheese aren't high value enough. I bought a few 5.5oz cans on sale during our outing last night... this is the result.

I've never had her be THAT engaged and actually thinking about what to do for the food! Good girl!

http://youtu.be/O95IplqG32A
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To Infinity and Beyond! ARCH URO1 UCD Buzz NAC NCC S-NJC O-TN-N TG-N WV-N RL2 RLVX RN ThD CGC 5/4/1998-5/20/2014
The Hallway Monitor Bailey VCD1 RE NAC NCC TN-N CGC 14 years
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ESRA foster Diego 12 years
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  #168  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
Sure! When I initially started doing RP I was rewarding for both when each task was complete, as well as whenever I saw relaxed body language (soft eyes, big sighs, etc.) but the veterinary behaviorist recommended stopping the latter, especially since he will "fake" relaxed positions a lot. She also said that the science behind the protocol is meant to work with rewarding after each task, not when they offer those things.

Frodo will still offer things like head down on the mat, but I just reward when the task is finished, no matter what he is doing. Sometimes he will stand up, or even meander off the mat, I just continue rewarding at the end of each task (putting the food on the mat as if he was still there) and we will mosey back onto the mat and lie back down. I do this because I know as he is getting up and moseying off that it is in a relaxed state, and I think that is better than when he is on the mat, staring me down I'M WORKING I'M WORKING!! Because he shouldn't be working, he should be relaxing!

Over time, by just rewarding the mat and ignoring what Frodo is doing, I have seen a huge reduction in his thinking the mat means work. When we started (after meds) he would glue his head to the mat and his little nub would just wag continually, because WE ARE WORKING! Now it is like, he chooses to be on the mat and do nothing and be fed, rather than wandering off and doing nothing and not being fed. Does that make sense? I don't know if what I'm trying to get across is coming through with this.

I will try and video in the next few days, I need to find my memory card, lol. And I will see if I can scrounge up one of our old videos so that you can see the difference.
Also, I will video Siri as well. It's amazing (to me at least) how fast she picks up the idea of "Oh hey, I'm just supposed to chill. Cool!" It was in our very first session.
Ah, the difference between working with an operant "normal" puppy, and a dog whose world is continually falling apart and being rebuilt.
Thank you so much. And actually, yes, what you say does make sense
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  #169  
Old 04-23-2013, 09:38 AM
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Rear. End. Awareness.

Seriously, Recon stinks. Our agility future is bleak because I jump to assumptions way too fast, so I want to start getting good obedience foundations NAO. Shaping the bowl to stand on today started with great success after staring at said bowl for about 10 minutes... much better than the lure work we've done with it though because he actually KNOWS that his feet are there this time. I just want a nice "find heel"
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  #170  
Old 04-23-2013, 09:47 AM
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May 4th. May 4th we are meeting up with a new IPO (WDA) club which will hopefully be a good fit AND we've been invited to a new dock dogs club. It will be SO nice to have a support system again.

I think I am going to take the potentially dumb leap of registering B for his CD or maybe choke and go for a BN at the western specialty in June. I would like to sign Sloan up for agility but I need to get a few runs in locally and am still SAPing contacting the trainer with full courses here. (Everyone together, stop being weird and email her, she's probably very nice)

Not really anything we're working on but I felt like putting that date as excitement and my plans for the western specialty out there. Also they offer CAT runs.
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