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  #31  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:38 AM
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Beanie Beanie is offline
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Just to make it clear, I have no intentions of ever hurting my dogs in the name of "training." It's not even a discussion worth having and why I have not bothered to respond to the suggestions to do so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsydals View Post
Beanie, could Georgie be coming into heat soon? I noticed that when the Great dane was here, shortly before she left (due to her coming into heat), the boys attitudes changed, Ivan was much more on edge around Peewee. And we even caught peewee trying to mount her.
Georgie just came out of heat about five weeks ago I think. Pepper is not due to go back in until June so we still have about a month before she gets close, assuming she has a regular schedule. Payton has to this point been very good about giving me signs the girls are going in, none of which include picking on Auggie, and he has not done that. However Georgie is Payton's wild playmate so I can easily see why he would be trying to do any kind of resource guarding with her.
OTOH it could simply be my mom, who has not been handling this very well. Last night she walked into the room and I had Payton with me, Auggie was in the kitchen, and she got between them - although they were about fifteen feet apart - and because she was "between" them, she stiffened and froze and didn't know what to do. That's certainly a good way to cause tensions.

Things would be easier if I were in my OWN house without having to deal with other people who are not as dog savvy, especially when it comes to a high drive dog like Payton.

Thanks very much Ado, that helps a lot.

sass, I did think about putting up baby gates, but I think there might be some barrier frustration if I did that (on Payton's end.) I could certainly try it and see what happened. I'm not sure which dog I would put where. Auggie would need to be gated into the kitchen so he can be near the water and the door to go out and potty, but that means he would be gated away from me and Payton gated IN with me...

Right now Pepper is the best dog in the house LOL. She's just running around like LA LA LA I'M PEPPER LA LA.


Question - up to now I have let Payton continue to stay out at night... should I crate him at night? They ignore each other completely at night, Auggie sleeps on the bed with me and Payton on the floor except for right after I get in bed and before I wake up in the morning. I am not worried about them fighting in the night but I am wondering if I should step it up a bit... until you're not being a butt anymore, you have to sleep in your crate?
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  #32  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:42 AM
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I am lucky ... I don't have the "fight to the death, tear each other apart" type of dogs ... Dogs like people sometimes have scuffles & arguments & disagreements. I have found that if I interfere, it (at least for me) makes things worse btw the two who are having the problems ... If arms that if I stay out of it, they seem to resolve it themselves.

Oftentimes it's just a lot of noise & no one is even touching her. Josefina will sometimes pester the other dogs (rubbing up against them, standing over them & staring at them etc ...) she just isn't good at reading subtle "please leave me alone" cues from her fellow canines, but now, a snark from one I the others gets the message across so maybe she is learning (she used to just stand there looking like "huh?" Even after she exited the "terrible teens").

Cushioning her, redirecting her, when I saw the other dog displaying "leave me alone" body lingo, actually hindered her learning when to leave the other dogs alone so I stopped interfering.

Of course if there is one dog that is seriously at a disadvantage (big size difference, age, etc) or for some reason CAN'T repel the other dog then I would intervene.
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  #33  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:56 AM
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I'd just crate and rotate until you pin pointed the source of the problem.

I went through this with Beau and my Westie I used to have but their fights were YOU WILL SUBMIT OR DIE!!!!! type fights....each fight was a vet visit to get Wrigley some drains and stitches. Beau doesn't play around....

But anyways better safe then sorry
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  #34  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
To be more clear, to me a CTJM does not have to mean physical corrections, it can be a verbal correction timeout etc. To me it just means something to rock their little world.

I will say, you have to do what works best for your dogs. I have large dogs who would seriously injure each other if they wanted too. I have an intact male who is pretty dominant. I personally do what works at my house for my dogs cause I have a lot of dogs come through here in one way or another and my dogs have to tolerate them...period.
Agreed, I have cattle dogs ... Buff said ... Sometimes they need to give each other a CTJM, if I know they aren't intent on killing each other they will just give each other a "what's what" but like I said ... I have dogs that don't put up with other dogs **** ... If you have a dog they isn't repelling the Other then I agree, they might need YOU to give them their CTJM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:15 AM
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I don't think anyone meant harm the dogs. Or maybe I read correction differently. I just know Mia's was mostly ou of overstimulation so stopping her and revving her down helped a lot.

Anyways sucks you're having to deal with this. Definitely sounds like mom might be contributing to the problem unintentionally.
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  #36  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
sass, I did think about putting up baby gates, but I think there might be some barrier frustration if I did that (on Payton's end.) I could certainly try it and see what happened. I'm not sure which dog I would put where. Auggie would need to be gated into the kitchen so he can be near the water and the door to go out and potty, but that means he would be gated away from me and Payton gated IN with me...
I don't think it's a cure-all for every situation. If my home didn't have the layout it does, I'm not sure it would have worked. For Pip there was a large component of anxiety, and having his own defined space actually seemed to help him relax (at the time he was also started on anti-anxiety medication as part of our overall plan, so that has helped as well). They've never been snarky at the gates, either, or I would have had to change how I was doing things. Pip occasionally still gets a bit of excitement and frustration if the youngsters are playing together in "their" area and he can't police them - but part of the overall plan has been to reward him for calm behavior/ignoring them play, so that has gotten better and better over time.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:29 AM
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It may be worth dividing them when you are gone, since they are okay on your presence. Hopefully you'll be in your house soon, but in the meantime I would be focused on calm behaviors, noting and rewarding good choices, diffusing tensions before they escalate (like ado said), and above all -- preventing opportunities to rehearse the behavior. If your mom is a catalyst or enabling (een unintentionally) then they need to be separated in those circumstances until you can get a handle on it.

Just my two cents though.
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  #38  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:43 AM
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I hate to say it ... But maybe neutering him might be an option to explore ESP with so many intact females in the house. When I was done showing bear & I knew I was not going to be able to "campaign" him like I would have had to for him to be a breeding dog ... So I neutered him.

They are your dogs & it's your choice, I'm not saying it will help but sometimes it does.

Maybe having Peyton drag a leash around, that way you could remove him quickly at any sign of trouble.

I will not crate/&/or rotate ... I just can't, my living situation makes it impossible ... So ... The dogs just "have" to get along.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:57 AM
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I wasn't gone when it happened, just not physically in the room. They are all crated whenever I'm not home. Auggie might be let out because my parents like him, but my parents don't really like Payton so he isn't. =P

I was in my bedroom with Payton, Auggie was in the other room with my mom (and Georgie), Payton left the room, and because I did not immediately follow him and go get him, he went after Auggie. Friday was a similar situation, I was in one room and my mom in the other and the dogs were in the other room with her. That was the first time it happened around my mom so I didn't think there was going to be a problem since to that point I was assuming it was my presence that was causing the problems. Saturday we went without any scuffles, Sunday was when it happened around my mom again and I figured out what was going on with her. Monday was entirely my fault because I should have gone after Payton right away, I knew it was going to happen. It happens very very quickly so I just can't wait to go get him even a few seconds.


I'm just not sure how to separate them, like I said, because it doesn't seem right to put Payton in with me and Auggie elsewhere. I'm also hesitant to jump right to that since a few people here have said it's harder to re-introduce after separating...
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  #40  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:06 PM
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Ah sorry, for some reason I had thought you were gone entirely.

Kim's a punk whenever I visit my parents. Mom's dog is ummm special. Undersocialized, overreactive, etc. I say Kim is a punk because she think it's hilarious to get a rise out of poor confused Maggie and will intentionally set her off if she thinks she can get away with it. And then laugh.

Sooo I tether Kim to me. She is rewarded for behaving well in Maggie's presence, and Maggie gets to interact with me and be rewarded for not being a canine whirling dervish. And if Kim starts thinking thoughts she should not, I am *right there* to tell her leave it or down or whatever is appropriate for the situation. By the time we go back home, they are fine together and I don't have to be quite so fanatical amount management.

I don't know how sustainable this would be for you, or if it's really an option, but going back to puppy basics and tethering may be something to consider for the time being. It would still allow Auggie et al to visit you at will.
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