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  #11  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:52 PM
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You've gotten great advice from the above posters, I'd definitely be putting it to use. But I'd like to pose a question. What happens if you, when you see those first slight signs of Payton becoming uncomfortable and testing Auggie, simply popped him right up and removed him from the situation? Quick, quiet, and easy removal. And Payton's small enough that you can do it. I've found this type of behavior from myself on a dog that is just showing the signs of getting upset completely takes the dog by surprise and changes his mental state.
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  #12  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
And instead of coming in and thinking "Look what a manly jerk I am!"
Oh God, that made me laugh. Thank you. Because I've been near tears about this all day and really needed a laugh.

Impulse control is definitely a constant thing with Payton, that's for sure. We have been working on going OUTside because everybody will try to charge the door but coming inside hasn't been an issue until now. Resource guarding has become a slight issue outside of this. Last week he found the bone of some unfortunate creature in our yard and I told him to "out" it into my hand, and he growled, but then dropped it in my hand without any more complaining and that was it. That's the first time he's ever not wanted to give me anything though, and I didn't really think much of it because the other day he stole a paper towel tube Auggie had and I told him "out" and he immediately dropped it without any kind of complaining, and I wasn't even anywhere near him. I have still been trading toys a lot with him since the incident with the animal bone though.

We are off to the vet this weekend to have Auggie's urine re-checked, I think I will ask for a T4 draw just to be sure. Breeder agrees that he's just being a teenage jerkface and it's nothing worth panicking about though.

Apparently Fetching Tags is having a sale JUST in time for Payton to remind me of the other phrase I wanted on his Fetching Tag...
stupid intact male dog.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:35 PM
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I don't think it's fair to blame his bad behavior on his balls. They may contribute to it, but it shouldn't be blamed on that. Many people have multiple males and no problems.

I use positive motivation training, the majority of the time. That said, this type of behavior no matter the dog needs a correction. He needs a little "come to jesus" moment IMHO.
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:43 PM
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He needs a little "come to jesus" moment IMHO.
This brings the rage out in me. That is all.
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  #15  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizmo View Post
You've gotten great advice from the above posters, I'd definitely be putting it to use. But I'd like to pose a question. What happens if you, when you see those first slight signs of Payton becoming uncomfortable and testing Auggie, simply popped him right up and removed him from the situation? Quick, quiet, and easy removal. And Payton's small enough that you can do it. I've found this type of behavior from myself on a dog that is just showing the signs of getting upset completely takes the dog by surprise and changes his mental state.
Honestly, it happened so fast this morning I don't think I could have reacted like that. The warning was so short. No warning Monday night either, no snarling or growling of ANY kind, just suddenly fighting. I still have no idea what that was about since I didn't see the start of it. I happened to have ahold of Payton last night when it happened and that's the only reason I was able to stop that at all.

I'm not sure if picking Payton up and taking him away would help if he's resource guarding me though...

Everybody is out together right now and Payton is not giving Auggie the side-eye or anything, he whined at him to play. Auggie is quietly giving Payton some space however, and I'm okay with that... let tempers mellow out a bit.
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  #16  
Old 04-11-2013, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post

I'm not sure if picking Payton up and taking him away would help if he's resource guarding me though...
This is very good thinking on your part. He may actually find it quite reinforcing!

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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Oh God, that made me laugh. Thank you. Because I've been near tears about this all day and really needed a laugh.
LOL Glad I could help

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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Impulse control is definitely a constant thing with Payton, that's for sure. We have been working on going OUTside because everybody will try to charge the door but coming inside hasn't been an issue until now.
I can say the same about Savvy. I think the impulse control issues contribute to the problem. Because dogs who don't naturally have much (ummm...any?) impulse control tend to get wound up real easy. And getting wound up lends itself to this sort of problem. I really do think Payton will get better with some impulse control type work involving this scenario, some management and time to grow up. I can't remember the last time Savvy wanted to herd Jagger due to dogs coming in excitement at night but for awhile if I wasn't right on top of the situation, he'd have done it every time Jagger came in. I would not consider this a "same sex aggression" issue or consider Payton a serious threat to Auggie at all from what you described. Obviously, you want to change the behavior because it's not fair for Auggie to have to put up with Payton being such a jerk to him. You're a good trainer and you have put a lot of effort into working with your dogs, I don't think managing, training and reworking this behavior is out of your abilities at all. I mean by all means, if you have reason to believe there is serious aggression consult a behaviorist, crate and rotate, etc. But from what you are saying here, I agree with Payton's breeder - I don't think there's any reason to panic.

It is interesting about the resource guarding. Did he have any tendency towards that when he was younger? Most of my Belgian girl's scuffles have tended to stem from resource guarding tendencies, though I'm not sure everyone would think that is what it was right away.
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2013, 09:02 PM
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Can Mia join the manly jerkface club? lol I'm kidding but I think my point was that I wouldn't blame it on Payton being male either. 90% of the time Mia is the instigator of our paps and is the one trying to start ****. I don't think it's true aggression, just overstimulation and redirection. She's a butthead sometimes and is the worst with Beau. Summer diffuses things pretty well on her own but Beau himself is a manly man and he comes back at her a lot. Bernard is intact and is very peaceful but will go on the defensive rarely especially against Queen B.

I wouldn't worry too bad about it being SSA or anything if it's just noise. Mia's impulsive and often just seems to not know what to do with her energy and she gets frustrated so the dog closest to her gets it. I am not sure if it is the right thing to do but I DO break them up when it happens. She will usually knock it off with a 'hey hey!' You can tell she is incredibly, incredibly overstimulated at this point. She will be opening and closing her mouth repeatedly in excitement.

I also know what will set her off too. Letting dogs out of crates and going outside are two big ones. So we try to plan ahead and avoid those scenarios.

I am not sure if it's the same thing, it's so hard to get the scene exactly when you're just reading it online and not seeing it.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
It is interesting about the resource guarding. Did he have any tendency towards that when he was younger? Most of my Belgian girl's scuffles have tended to stem from resource guarding tendencies, though I'm not sure everyone would think that is what it was right away.
It's weird, he has never guarded things from me (or other dogs) until that creature-bone last week. Any scuffles that have ever happened are over pulled tails or ears or just an overzealous play-bite - or the occasional Georgie is too annoying for Auggie and he wants her to go away and never come back, but that's not Payton - and they are scuffles in that one dog yelps/barks and the other dog knocks it off immediately... never a fight. We've never had any fights until Monday even with all four dogs in the house.


At least Payton is not the only jerkface around here LOL.
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  #19  
Old 04-12-2013, 12:39 AM
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Just something that hasn't been mentioned, it's probably just a teenager thing but what about Pepper? Could she be going into season, and it's making him loose his marbles?
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:07 AM
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Just something that hasn't been mentioned, it's probably just a teenager thing but what about Pepper? Could she be going into season, and it's making him loose his marbles?
Thankfully no - I still have two months before she goes back into season. =P He is very good about letting me know when the girls are coming into season, but it's historically been because he becomes a big pathetic grovelling crybaby who can't stop himself from whining... or pacing... or singing his song of woe...
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