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  #31  
Old 03-24-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
*I* want a dog with some muzzle, maybe 1" to 1.5", with better structure than a show Frenchie. And maybe a tail. a real tail, ffs.
So you...want a dog that you can call a Frenchie, but you don't actually want a Frenchie. And this dog probably can't come from a shelter or rescue, right? Because it's going to become the next breeding project, since wolf hybrids, merle "Pit Bulls," tricolored Bullies and whatever "breed" it was before all of those have lost their novelty.

And the cycle continues...
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  #32  
Old 03-24-2013, 06:22 PM
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I have a Boston and a Frenchie. Both adopted so most likely BYB. Rocky the Frenchie was actually a BYB/puppy mill Stud dog.

I am very active outside hiking at least 2x a week. Neither dog has any issue keeping up with me. We hike for miles usually 3-5 miles at a time in Florida. When the temps get over 90 I don't take them unless we go after the sun goes down.

Jack the Boston doesn't swim that well, but Rocky the Frenchie swims very well. He is a little powerhouse.

Jack is way more active, reminds me of the Energizer Bunny!











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  #33  
Old 03-24-2013, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
*I* want a dog with some muzzle, maybe 1" to 1.5", with better structure than a show Frenchie. And maybe a tail. a real tail, ffs.
That's not a Frenchie though...

Sounds more like a staffy.
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  #34  
Old 03-24-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
*I* want a dog with some muzzle, maybe 1" to 1.5", with better structure than a show Frenchie. And maybe a tail. a real tail, ffs.
So you want a different breed?
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  #35  
Old 03-24-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
So you...want a dog that you can call a Frenchie, but you don't actually want a Frenchie. And this dog probably can't come from a shelter or rescue, right? Because it's going to become the next breeding project, since wolf hybrids, merle "Pit Bulls," tricolored Bullies and whatever "breed" it was before all of those have lost their novelty.

And the cycle continues...
remind me where iv bred any of those things
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:57 PM
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and no, i do not want a staffy. how is a frenchie anything like a staffy? 1" is not long, its about as wide as my thumb, which is about the length of some byb bostons iv groomed, and its a decent length, still looks typey, but isnt "i just ran into a wall" flat. and better angulation than the stick straight show dogs-- how does that make it a staffy? or not a frenchie? many show staffys have that straight front and rear too > > and the tail, well, i dont like the spinal issues that come along with those weird smashed up kinked corkscrew tails, and i dont like how it looks when the dog cant even really wag :/ if its not possible to get a frenchie with at least a few inches of tail, then i suppose ill never own one, but everything else im sure is possible to find, its just the byb vs good breeder part thats hard
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  #37  
Old 03-24-2013, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
remind me where iv bred any of those things
Whoops, sorry. You only planned on it, until they kept getting "stolen." My bad. Now you just breed tricolored American Bullies out of a bitch you told me you were scared of because of her temperament issues that come down from her sire. Thanks for the correction.
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  #38  
Old 03-24-2013, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
and no, i do not want a staffy. how is a frenchie anything like a staffy? 1" is not long, its about as wide as my thumb, which is about the length of some byb bostons iv groomed, and its a decent length, still looks typey, but isnt "i just ran into a wall" flat. and better angulation than the stick straight show dogs-- how does that make it a staffy? or not a frenchie? many show staffys have that straight front and rear too > > and the tail, well, i dont like the spinal issues that come along with those weird smashed up kinked corkscrew tails, and i dont like how it looks when the dog cant even really wag :/ if its not possible to get a frenchie with at least a few inches of tail, then i suppose ill never own one, but everything else im sure is possible to find, its just the byb vs good breeder part thats hard
I think your options are going to be rescue, a 'pet' breeder that health tests, and simply thumbing through the millions of breeder web pages until you find a breeder that has dogs that you like. Otherwise, you may want to look at other breeds to suit your needs. If I were to get another ACD, I know I prefer a bit leaner, lighter, taller build compared to a lot of the very 'squat' dogs that are closer to what is being shown now. I would have to look for a breeder producing the 'type' of ACD that I like.
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  #39  
Old 03-24-2013, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by frostfell View Post
*I* want a dog with some muzzle, maybe 1" to 1.5", with better structure than a show Frenchie. And maybe a tail. a real tail, ffs.
Just buy a rescue mix that looks frenchie-ish.
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  #40  
Old 03-24-2013, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OwnedByBCs View Post

I think a huge reason so many brachycephalic breeds have issues breathing is entirely based on their weight. My sister has a Pug named Zoe who was horribly overweight when they bought her- and had the typical Pug breathing problems. When she took the weight off of Zoe, she was incredibly athletic and energetic- and the breathing problems were completely gone. I think the reason show dogs are so targeted for breathing issues is because they are kept so overweight in the ring (this is true for all breeds, not just brachy breeds).
The combination of no muzzle and obesity certainly is a bad one. Still, that doesn't mean that not having muzzle isn't in itself an issue (just like being obese is in itself an issue). Those extreme brachy traits can cause dental issues, breathing issues, eye issues and other problems. I know several Pugs (BYB FWIW) who can't hold their tongues in their mouths. Their tongue just constantly sticks out and is dry. You can hear every single breath those dogs take too. I know multiple one eyed Shih Tzus and Pekes who had eye injuries due to their eyes too easily popping out their heads. And various Brachy breeds who have constant eye issues. So it's not just a matter of muzzle length. And it is not just show breeders who's dog have these issues. I have seen some really extreme BYB/petstore bought examples too.

As for the comment that all breeds are kept overweight for the ring...I'm involved with showing two breeds and neither is shown fat. If anything, you're likely to see dogs in the ring who could stand to put on a couple lbs. Actually Whim lost to Cherry at our UKC National because she was about 4 - 5lbs overweight (per me) and Cherry was more fit. And when Savvy got a bit chubby as a puppy, his breeder was quick to tell me he was eating too well I know a long, long time Boxer breeder/judge who definitely expects Boxers to be shown well muscled and not fat or soft.

So it is fashionable in some breeds to show fat dogs but that is not the case in all breeds.


I don't think it's unrealistic or wrong to want a dog who is a less extreme version of the modern trends. If I got another Collie, I'd want a dog like these:







There is nothing about them that doesn't make them Collies. I would even argue they have nice breed type but are just not "ultra-typed", they don't have some of the extreme features you see more typically in the modern version of the breed. That is what I like in the breed, regardless of what people consider "correct" right now.

Also I strongly prefer Corgis who have some length of leg and are a bit shorter bodied. That doesn't mean I don't like Corgis, it is a variation in type found within the breed...it's just not what breeder in modern times consider "typey". If we were to get another Corgi though, you can bet I'd be looking for one built like Ziggy or Emily's Keeva.

And GSDs, I also prefer the more moderately built dogs regardless of lines. Luckily in GSDs there seems to be more acceptance to seek out whatever floats your boat. Although I have been told by people that anyone not breeding AKC show quality GSDs was a BYB (people who said the reason they didn't get a GSD was because of the way show GSDs are built).
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