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  #881  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:16 PM
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BostonBanker BostonBanker is offline
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Yep. Start line stays are overrated.

Pan actually has a very good stay, but she blasts off the line, tries too hard to catch up to me and often knocks the first bar. I figure I'll keep things fun and start with a scruff grab pull and release most of the time.
Be really careful with that - I had a friend get whistled out of the ring when she went to rev her dog up by grabbing at his scruff. The judge considered it a correction, despite her clearly playful attitude (and the dog's lack of worry about it).

Both of my dogs have start lines, and will continue to do so. I need the lead out to get where I want to be more often than not. Sometimes my "lead-out" is about a foot, but I can go across the ring with Meg (maybe with Gusto, I haven't pushed it in a trial). I really wish I had the money to do the "Stays" class at Agility U that starts on Monday, but I'm doing Recallers right now with Gusto, so that's eaten up my agility funds for right now. I'll definitely take it when it comes up again; I'd like more "explosion" from Gusto's releases.
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  #882  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:23 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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I know a lot of people have running starts, but I just randomly had a question about it. I use lateral sends a lot on the start line (a lot more often than I thought I would!!), is it just not an option with a running start? I suppose not since you are starting right with the dog, but is there a way to accomplish the same idea?
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  #883  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:33 PM
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This is the one other option if the problem is motivation rather than lack of a stay:



Someone suggested that to me at the event, and it did work to give me a little lead-out advantage without slowing her up too much. (I was neurotic about messing up the opening, because we did in the first round) I don't know if I'd do it now, with improvements in my handling, I don't need that advantage so much anymore. But it's a bit academic, because I'm not running a less-motivated dog now.
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  #884  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:38 PM
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Mia's actually really fast out of a stay however the demotivation happens when I have to correct her too many times a training session and put her back in the stay. She recovers fine once we get going but I can see her stressing so I don't push it too much. I do want to keep good criteria so I've been cracking down on the creeper dog deal she likes to do.
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  #885  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SaraB View Post
I know a lot of people have running starts, but I just randomly had a question about it. I use lateral sends a lot on the start line (a lot more often than I thought I would!!), is it just not an option with a running start? I suppose not since you are starting right with the dog, but is there a way to accomplish the same idea?
A fair number of people with the really fast dog with no start line end up doing a "sling" start to help them get downcourse. It's usually a bandaid but it's fairly effective if you know your dog's commitment distance well. Basically you start off to the side with your dog and send then toward the first jump while you move downstream.

[General] On some courses if you have a truly fast dog and no startline stay you have to do some sort of sling unless you can fully steer your dog by vocals. Webby has a stay but I usually start with him or laterally...he's fast enough but he's no rocket and it works for him. With Mira I need a lead out on certain kinds of courses...there's just no way otherwise. Fortunately she's been doing steadiness drills since puppyhood and start lines are no biggie with her. Just depends on your dog, the type of course you run, and your handling style.
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Last edited by Shai; 03-22-2013 at 07:09 PM.
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  #886  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Shai View Post
A fair number of people with the really fast dog with no start line end up doing a "sling" start to help them get downcourse. It's usually a bandaid but it's fairly effective if you know your dog's commitment distance well. Basically you start off to the side with your dog and send then toward the first jump while you move downstream. .
Yep, I do that with Tess a lot, and one of the starts in the video I posted shows that, though it's not one of the more dramatically angled versions, since I had to maneuver around another jump.
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  #887  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:59 PM
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This is the one other option if the problem is motivation rather than lack of a stay:
I will definitely release in motion like that some of the time now. I'm trying to decide how I really feel about it! Of the two people I love doing seminars with, one suggests it a ton, the other doesn't like it. As of right now, Gusto will do either, and I swap back and forth a bit between them. I'd like to build up the drive out of the stay so I don't need it, but I do like that as an option.
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  #888  
Old 03-22-2013, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
I will definitely release in motion like that some of the time now. I'm trying to decide how I really feel about it! Of the two people I love doing seminars with, one suggests it a ton, the other doesn't like it. As of right now, Gusto will do either, and I swap back and forth a bit between them. I'd like to build up the drive out of the stay so I don't need it, but I do like that as an option.
It would be a terrible idea with a dog who doesn't have a reliable stay, since it would probably make the stay worse. And I suspect doing it all the time would weaken the stay too. Tully never had a problem with staying, though, she was just so much happier to run together; and she ran faster when we did, because she was happier. So this sort of worked as a midway position, that she only had to hold it for a few seconds, and then we were running together. Plus, not turning to face her, which turned out to put pressure on her. Using blind crosses turned out to be super motivational for her too, I wasn't putting pressure on her by looking at her.

She was sensitive.
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  #889  
Old 03-22-2013, 07:29 PM
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She was sensitive.
I was going to say that Meg's tombstone will say that, but then I remembered that I've made it clear to her that she is living forever!

Blind crosses still scare the pants off of me. I could probably get away with them with Meg, especially at this point, but since Gusto likes to duck behind me on course already, I'm too scared to ever reward that. I'll be that person in 20 years, long after everyone has given up the old "don't take your eyes off your dog!" rule, still only doing front and rear crosses!

I can not wait for our snow to go away. I've realized recently that, while Gusto's weave entries are generally fantastic - that it is dependent on me being behind him going into them. If I'm even with the first pole or past it, he skips the first entry. I need to get my poles outside for some proofing!
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  #890  
Old 03-22-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
Yep, I do that with Tess a lot, and one of the starts in the video I posted shows that, though it's not one of the more dramatically angled versions, since I had to maneuver around another jump.
Yeah I was on my phone before so couldn't watch your vid at the time


Another example of a dog with no start line who is very successfully started with varying degrees of sling instead:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8uaz...sQf0tQ&index=9
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