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  #871  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:50 PM
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Shai Shai is offline
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I enjoyed the variety I saw this last weekend. And I do know that most I saw were at the top level of agility for the breed as they were at nationals. But I also met a few that were 'along for the ride'. I'm sure seeing them not at a trial would be better but I did see them just chilling. I saw some fearfulness for sure, but not nearly as much as I was expecting. And not really much more stressiness and fearfulness than I saw in BCs and shelties there too. The one dog I saw REALLY stressing was in a situation I guarantee you would have made Mia stress out in too. And a minute later that same dog was jumping up and saying hi to a decent sized group of people. Some of the sheps weren't as drivey as I personally like but... a lot of the shelties weren't as drivey as I like either. And some of the border collies too.

I met dogs from 4 different breeders. But one thing I realize is IF (big if, I'm still talking to breeders) I do go that direction that being open to rough coats is going to not narrow my options nearly as much. I would rather get a good well rounded dog than a dog that looks the way I like.

funny starting out I only liked the smooths. Now I'm talking to a breeder that has no smooths so getting the look I like isn't even an option if (big if again) I go with said breeder.

Anyways, I'm still in heavy research phase. The breeders I've talked to all seem to present the breed pretty realistically and also are very thorough about who gets their dogs. I wouldn't want a bad fit and I hope they'd let me know if they think it's a bad fit.

I just kept coming back to them for about 6 years now and I wanted to explore the option completely.
FWIW I don't think either of us are trying to talk you out of it lol...just throwing in our perspectives. Or in my case, whining about it lol. As I've said before there are quite a few around here due to my proximity to a producer of them. So they are on my radar. It's just for me, for my priorities, I just think they are too big a risk at this point. That could change, but considering my Next Dog will be my Last Dog for a very long time, I just don't see it happening any time soon. For me. Everyone else should get PyrSheps though so I can get a better idea what's out there
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  #872  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:55 PM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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Pm me the breeder? Lol

I really understand they're probably not the right breed for most people. Still trying to figure out if they're a good breed for me.
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  #873  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:55 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Originally Posted by Shai View Post
FWIW I don't think either of us are trying to talk you out of it lol...just throwing in our perspectives. Or in my case, whining about it lol. As I've said before there are quite a few around here due to my proximity to a producer of them. So they are on my radar. It's just for me, for my priorities, I just think they are too big a risk at this point. That could change, but considering my Next Dog will be my Last Dog for a very long time, I just don't see it happening any time soon. For me. Everyone else should get PyrSheps though so I can get a better idea what's out there
This exactly. I honestly don't care what someone else gets for their dog, if it's something adorable like a pyrshep that I can admire from afar, that's fantastic!

Your other thread asked if there was a breed we liked but were turned off of when we met them, for me that was pyrsheps. I love the idea of them, the possible reality at this point is not something I want. Having had to modify a small group class so that a certain pyrshep could learn without having a meltdown as enough for me. Hearing about a very talented pyrshep that is in the national spotlight having issues training agility and having to give month long breaks so that the dog doesn't get overwhelmed was another turn off point. Having being told my a local accomplished trainer that she will never consider a pyrshep again was another.

I hope one day they are a bit more consistent, however I know that's not the history or standard of the breed. Maybe one day my lifestyle will be better suited to one, until then, I will live vicariously through anyone else who gets the opportunity to let a muppet into their lives.
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  #874  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:50 PM
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Luckily almost everyone I've met has been very happy with their pyrsheps. Quite a few are planning on another. Different strokes, I suppose.

Anyways, we will see if it goes anywhere. I's just an idea at this point.

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Start line stays are evil. Tully was no trouble for holding start lines, but she went faster if I ran with her, and it made her happier, so I did (once I figured it out. Took me a few years). I screwed Tess' start line up totally by being inconsistent, and I gave up and don't do one now. Which adds quite a layer of challenge.

I was determined for Pirate to have a start line, so I spent months with him in his initial training, replacing him at the start line as many times as it took. I finally got it, and thought he was pretty solid. Then recently, he started breaking them.

I think I fixed it, though. I was working on it, gave it some thought, and realized that whenever I lead out, I first hold up my hand to indicate the jump, then give the verbal release. And what do we do when we're teaching a dog a new cue? Yep, pair it with the old one. And of course, lifting a hand is a vague cue. So it he's releasing on that, he starts releasing on any movement of my hand.

So my training has been to show him that it doesn't matter what my hand does, he can't release until the verbal. Clear and consistent. And thankfully, it appears to be effective.

Of course, Elmo never had trouble with his start line, and Tully never had trouble except that she ran better without one, so my first few years in agility, I thought the people who had bad startlines were crappy trainers. I try not to think things like that anymore, I've been smacked down too many times.
Start lines are the bane of Mia and my's existence. We're working on it... slowly. Stays have been CONSTANT work for her, especially in front of obstacles. I've been using a running start more often lately. Works well for us so far and she seems to be taking to start lines better if we don't have to do them before EVERY SINGLE RUN.
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  #875  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post

Start lines are the bane of Mia and my's existence. We're working on it... slowly. Stays have been CONSTANT work for her, especially in front of obstacles. I've been using a running start more often lately. Works well for us so far and she seems to be taking to start lines better if we don't have to do them before EVERY SINGLE RUN.
It really did get to be a thing with me and Tess. It was bad dog training on my part, and the fact that I just didn't enforce the criteria. She'd break, and I'd run her anyway. So why should she stay? Then I'd start barking "STAY! STAY!" at her, and that didn't make for a fun atmosphere. Eventually I thought about it, and decided that I didn't want my last run ever with Tess to be one where we were struggling with each other over a start line. And you can't really know when a run is going to be your last. Anything can happen.

So, I started running with her, and as a bonus, I got better contacts and table performance! Apparently, the start line stress was creeping into other things, and when I took that away, we were a better team. It's a bit of a challenge sometimes, because she is a fast dog, but it's always good to have a challenge.
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  #876  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:28 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Start lines are the bane of Mia and my's existence. We're working on it... slowly. Stays have been CONSTANT work for her, especially in front of obstacles. I've been using a running start more often lately. Works well for us so far and she seems to be taking to start lines better if we don't have to do them before EVERY SINGLE RUN.
Have you tried Crate Games with her? Specifically setting the crate up in front of a jump/tunnel/other obstacle? It really cleared up any start line issues with both Zuma and Zinga.
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  #877  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:40 AM
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Yeah we've been doing a lot of crate games and then running starts in he mean time. I think running starts are a lot more motivating for her and will probably continue those in instances where they're possible.
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  #878  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:16 AM
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I switched almost entirely to running starts with Auggie for the same reasons of motivation - of course, Auggie was in need of every motivational boost he could get. Leaving him at the start line meant he would almost immediately disconnect and start stress sniffing, and coming out of his stay he was flat out slow.
However he did have a great start line stay. I think in the last few years of trialing after I stopped using a stay, we maybe did it... two times, three max. I remember the first time I did it, I was like "Uhhh, I don't even know if he's going to stay anymore!" since we NEVER did them. He actually did fine with it, but it really was so rare that I ever did them that I had enough doubt in my mind when I decided to use one, haha.

Payton is getting one, but I am fast enough that he doesn't really need one either. Lead outs are nice and since Payton doesn't have motivation issues with them (yet) I will probably use them - but they are rarely essential given the amount of sprint I have. Obviously not everybody is that way though, I know some people HAVE to have them because they just can't keep up otherwise.
Clearly all able-bodied agility competitors should practice sprints and distance runs to improve their own speed on a course LOL.
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  #879  
Old 03-22-2013, 01:16 PM
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Even if you aren't that fast, it's usually possible to run without a start line unless your dog is really, blazingly fast. I'm slow, Tess is fast, and we do fine without one. In this video I made:



you can see a lot of us running without a start line stay. Mostly at the Invitational, for some reason, I wound up using a lot of clips from the start line there. In one, you can see one of my tricks for it; starting the dog at a different angle than where I actually intend to go.

It takes a little more handling thought, but it's totally doable.

Now with Tully, who I ran with because of motivation, she just really wasn't that fast, so it wasn't hard. She wasn't going to run faster than I did.
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  #880  
Old 03-22-2013, 04:29 PM
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Panzerotti Panzerotti is offline
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Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
Even if you aren't that fast, it's usually possible to run without a start line unless your dog is really, blazingly fast. I'm slow, Tess is fast, and we do fine without one.
Yep. Start line stays are overrated.

Pan actually has a very good stay, but she blasts off the line, tries too hard to catch up to me and often knocks the first bar. I figure I'll keep things fun and start with a scruff grab pull and release most of the time.
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