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  #11  
Old 03-19-2013, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Watch for stamina issues with the show/dual goldens. I do agree they are ridiculously cute, sweet, and while they're driven enough to sport but many I've been around are winded easily which can be frustrating.
But endurance can be built up by a good training program.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:30 AM
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My friend runs a show bred Golden in Flyball and doesn't seem to have stamina issues with him. He actually for quite some time was one of the fastest Goldens in the US, not sure about now. He's probably 6 to 7 and she has a girl from the same breeder who is 10ish and still in good health. She also has a old son of her dog who's doing well in flyball training, almost ready to start competing. They're all nice, nice dogs. The older one is a good pet, not very drivey but was bought pre-sports as a pet. The two boys are plenty drivey and they are loud and crazy in Flyball but good dogs all around and fairly typical Goldens. The breeder of her dogs is a very good breeder, came from an obedience background and truly cares about the long term health of her dogs. I'd not hesitate to recommend her to anyone, she has an excellent reputation and has been in the breed for a long time now.

I think what you want temperament wise (middle of the road) is probably going to be more easily found in show bred Goldens than field bred or obedience bred (which is another "type" in the breed, along with pet lines). Although the show bred dogs will tend to be heavier boned, have blockier heads. There are some pretty serious cancer issues in the breed and I'm not sure any line is really free of it, so definitely you'd want to ask about longevity with any breeder you go to.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
My friend runs a show bred Golden in Flyball and doesn't seem to have stamina issues with him. He actually for quite some time was one of the fastest Goldens in the US, not sure about now. He's probably 6 to 7 and she has a girl from the same breeder who is 10ish and still in good health. She also has a old son of her dog who's doing well in flyball training, almost ready to start competing. They're all nice, nice dogs. The older one is a good pet, not very drivey but was bought pre-sports as a pet. The two boys are plenty drivey and they are loud and crazy in Flyball but good dogs all around and fairly typical Goldens. The breeder of her dogs is a very good breeder, came from an obedience background and truly cares about the long term health of her dogs. I'd not hesitate to recommend her to anyone, she has an excellent reputation and has been in the breed for a long time now.

I think what you want temperament wise (middle of the road) is probably going to be more easily found in show bred Goldens than field bred or obedience bred (which is another "type" in the breed, along with pet lines). Although the show bred dogs will tend to be heavier boned, have blockier heads. There are some pretty serious cancer issues in the breed and I'm not sure any line is really free of it, so definitely you'd want to ask about longevity with any breeder you go to.
Given your location, I think I know these dogs (B, B, and B)? And I adore the older male I've met on numerous occasions. He's certainly not slow and cumbersome for a bench bred Golden, not in the slightest.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:41 AM
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But endurance can be built up by a good training program.
Nope, this isn't meant to be insulting at all but I haven't found you can bring out an exponential amount if its not there already. Meaning, no matter the conditioning my clients could only go so far with the average dog of the stockier "teddy bear" show line goldens, ime. I work with several and have for years, they're awesome dogs and have plenty of training drive, they've been some of my favorites actually, but realistically speaking they're not going to last as long as many of the herders or gunbred dogs that we've seen through my work, as far as stamina. Some it may easily be they have had a rather low heat tolerance, which diminishes stamina, due to build and coat.

There are always exceptions but this is my experience.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
Given your location, I think I know these dogs (B, B, and B)? And I adore the older male I've met on numerous occasions. He's certainly not slow and cumbersome for a bench bred Golden, not in the slightest.
Yes their names all do start with B The older boy is awesome! Just exactly what I'd want in a Golden. I haven't been around his son as much as him but he seems really promising. Young and dorky but promising LOL
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:29 PM
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The field lines can certainly be over the top, Storee is for sure. When asked if I would want another one like her my answer is 'no!!!'. Love her to death but she's certainly the adhd version of the breed and has pushed my training skills a lot. She's improved and calmed down a bit but she's now six.

My 'show' girl was a lot nicer to work with, she had her own quirks as well but nothing like that. K9 Data is a good resource as it does list how long the dogs lived in there. Bender, my old girl, lived to 13, Storee is six and her mom and grandmother are still kicking and over ten.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:27 PM
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One of Gusto's best friends is a golden (and the golden's father, but the young one is his age). They are, from all I can tell, show goldens - I hear things like "the father was a successful field trial dog" and such, but I don't think they are actual "let's go hunting" dogs. They are certainly what I think of as show type, and I know the father has his Canadian CH. The father is MACH 3, and the son is also doing agility. I've never been blown away watching either run, but they are successful and steady and do just fine by themselves.

More importantly, they are nice dogs. I'm not a retriever person, and I don't think I'd ever want one myself, but they are sweet with people, obedient, and great with dogs. Polite and not pushy. I've never seen an ounce of aggression from either. I'm not sure how they'd do in serious heat/physical exertion, but they regularly go on 2 or 3 hour hikes with Gusto and Meg in the winter and hold up just as well as my dogs. They are also fit and not fat.

I'd have no qualms about recommending a good show breeder to someone looking for a great golden as a pet and a low-to-medium level competition dog.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:29 PM
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I'd have no qualms about recommending a good show breeder to someone looking for a great golden as a pet and a low-to-medium level competition dog.
I completely agree.
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Nope, this isn't meant to be insulting at all but I haven't found you can bring out an exponential amount if its not there already. Meaning, no matter the conditioning my clients could only go so far with the average dog of the stockier "teddy bear" show line goldens, ime. I work with several and have for years, they're awesome dogs and have plenty of training drive, they've been some of my favorites actually, but realistically speaking they're not going to last as long as many of the herders or gunbred dogs that we've seen through my work, as far as stamina. Some it may easily be they have had a rather low heat tolerance, which diminishes stamina, due to build and coat.

There are always exceptions but this is my experience.
That thinking is why people think you can't get a mastiff or bulldog run for miles. It is possible it just takes A TON more work to get there & stay there. It's limited to be sure, VERY FEW bulldogs will run with fit hounds but that is as much an issue of effort as ability. Keep in mind I built up my catahoulaXamerican bulldog to where he ran 12 miles at 20mph 3X a week. He had no problems running with plotts & walkers on bear, even though he was 15-25# heavier. It just took a lot of my time & sweat to get him that way & most people can't or won't put in that effort.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:21 AM
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And the ever lasting question would be why do we have dog breeds if you could get any dog to do any task with the right training and conditioning.

Sure, I could condition a Pekingese to run a 12 mi AD but in the end am I benefiting the dog or merely trying to prove something to my peers?

The fact of the matter is the English mastiff in my Monday class falls asleep between exercises, she'll light up with cheerleading and work a few minutes then she's done. I am positive if the owners wanted they could build her drive, build her stamina, and make some strong efforts to change her but why? They bought a dog like this because it suits them, why buy a dog and then attempt to change it from its breeding goals?

I already said the goldens, show lines, I have worked with can sport and almost all do because they've been so fun and pleasurable to train with, but their stamina and heat tolerance has been a consistent issue in each I've seen.

Even in our daycare at work the show goldens come out rip roaring each morning and crash by lunch, laying and sleeping, until pick up. Meanwhile our gundog goldens are still screaming and tackling dogs as their owners arrive. It's a clear difference but fwiw more often than not the show goldens are far better suited to their owners than the hunting lines that were often bought not for their energy but for their health and now their families are pulling their hair out, they'd make amazing sporting dogs but as pets they leave something to be desired for most.
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Last edited by AdrianneIsabel; 03-20-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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