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Old 03-19-2013, 11:50 AM
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DJEtzel DJEtzel is offline
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Default Stand for Exam/ stand stay training

This is what I worked on along with finding heel position with Recon today.

He kind of surprised the hell out of me. I have NEVER practiced stand or stand/stay with him before... except standing for me on the grooming table, but there was no stay for that and I can't imagine he generalized that?

I did click at the wrong time on the third go as he moved his leg, which I didn't mean to do as I was trying to click before he broke the stay like I thought he was going to do and kicked myself for it already, so no need to point that out, but what I'm wondering... because I've never trained a stand/stay for exam before... is after I click and come to him on that third repitition, he bounces a little/moves his feet to get the treat out of my hand. He was doing that every time BEFORE I started filming as well... and I don't actually release him until after I reward... Do you think this will be an issue as far as keeping his feet in one spot on a real SFE, and if so, what can I do to stop him from moving... I've already clicked so I HAVE to reward, and I can't see me doing anything different between the first two/last and that third one that would effect him.

Do you think I should let him get set up straight first/give him more time? I noticed that the third one when he moved, he did so because one foot was not underneat him and was awkward. Opinions? I'm brand new at this.

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Old 03-19-2013, 12:09 PM
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I can't see the video but if he's bouncing out and anticipating a reward I would work on a Zen stay in a stand. Basically you'll set up the stand and lower a tiny unstealable treat from shoulder height towards the nose, and flinching and the treat leaves back to starting position, repeat until you can reach him with the treat sans foot movement. The reaction for a reward is an issue when the judge reaches for the head. If I'm understanding this correctly...

Also, some like to physically stack before and exam to ensure balance. That may help the wiggles.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I can't see the video but if he's bouncing out and anticipating a reward I would work on a Zen stay in a stand. Basically you'll set up the stand and lower a tiny unstealable treat from shoulder height towards the nose, and flinching and the treat leaves back to starting position, repeat until you can reach him with the treat sans foot movement. The reaction for a reward is an issue when the judge reaches for the head. If I'm understanding this correctly...
I think you did and I think I see what you're saying. So work without the clicker basically on impulse control so that he doesn't jump up to anticipate the treat?

That sounds easy enough.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:20 PM
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Exactly. I'm proofing that with our down right now, it's really effective!
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:23 PM
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We've been doing it with down as well, he was so bad for a while about popping up.

Thank you for such an easy solution that I couldn't think up on my own! haha
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:40 PM
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Very nice!

I think you're moving a bit too fast. If this is the first time you’ve ever worked on a stand-stay then I’d probably not be going more than a foot or two away. And if your goal is AKC type comp obedience, the exercise only really requires that you go 6 feet away, I think. I would work on proofing a more solid understanding of “hold yer feet where ya leave ‘em” before adding much more distance.

As mentioned above, doggy zen and other exercises to discourage him “helping” you deliver treats to him will be good in the long term.

Finally, why bother using the clicker? I love the clicker, but more and more I prefer to use a secondary or bridging marker word when I’m teaching stays. Teaching stand would probably be where I use a clicker since timing is important. As you move on to stays it’s more important to make sure you’re delivering the food while the dog is still in position and timing is a bit less important. Pretty often I see dogs trained via a clicker with stays interpret the click as the end of the exercise (often they’ll shift or move and receive reinforcement anyways). When that happens, a dog is being rewarded for ending the behavior, not maintaining it.

And of course, always release from a control position. Maintain the same "don't move an inch" criteria in sits, downs and stands.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:36 PM
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Thanks.

He really doesn't seem to move his feet at ALL (while he's actually staying and not trying to get the treat) surprisingly... that was the first time and I believe it was just because he didn't have them underneat him well which I'm paying attention to... it's just as I reward that he moves to get the treat. But it is a good idea staying a little closer. I figured stays were stays and he already knows stay, but this IS a new exercise, so that's a good idea.

I have used the clicker for everything else and forget marker words so I just used it for this as well. The click never ends our exercise, as you can see I click and he has to wait for me to get back and release him. During normal sit/down stay exercises I click, come reward, then leave again without saying anything and he still stays. I feel like the clicker works very well for him, or I start talking too much and confusing him.

I think getting rid of the clicker for a few sessions to teach him that he can't jump up to get treats from me is a good idea, but I really prefer using the clicker in general.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:34 PM
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