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  #21  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:36 AM
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I don't know this woman, whatever opinion I hold doesn't really matter. But i'm skeptical for a lot of reasons already mentioned. If AR people, why just one dog? were there more? is it shoddy reporting? are reports, aren't reports? It was confirmed? by who, and how did they confirm it?

Just went thru a similar case in the GSD world. Rather prominent AWDF and UScA judge. A lot of you probably heard about it too. Lots of stories surrounding that one too and in the end, it looks like it was nothing but an accident and two sides assumed the worst in each other and stories and rumors took off from there. I had extended family members and friends donating money to find the the people that had "stolen, killed, and then dumped his dog back by his training field". I dont' know how much money was raised, but I'm guessing if other people had a typical response myself and friends had, it was more than just a few thousand dollars.

I do know a lot of those people involved in that story, and happen to think assumptions got the best of "both groups". and still today, here we sit with no answers and the two sides even further entrenched in their initial assumptions.

Forgive me if I don't fall easily for a story I can see ten thousand holes in.
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
But please, everyone continue bashing this woman for making a decision she felt best at the time.
If I'm "bashing" anything, it's the decision to make a public accusation with no real evidence (that has been presented so far); if the news article was inaccurate and there WAS testing done, then she could at least release a statement with the testing she did.

The other thing about mouse/rat poisoning is... without a some kind of toxicology to back up their suspicions (which apparently was done? or not?) the best a vet can say is "these symptoms could be consistent with anticoagulant poisoning." That's pretty weak "evidence" to make accusations about.

And for anticoagulant mouse/rat poisons, it can take up to a week for symptoms severe enough to kill a dog to show up. So even if it WAS poison, the assumption/accusation that it happened at the show are irresponsible IMO. The dog could have been exposed anywhere for up to a week before symptoms appeared, why assume it was at the show?

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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Forgive me if I don't fall easily for a story I can see ten thousand holes in.
Me, too. I understand that the woman is sad and grieving and likely angry, but why throw around accusations that either haven't or can't be corroborated ? If she's going to make the choice to make the accusation, then her argument is going to come under scrutiny. *shrug*
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2013, 12:41 PM
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so sad , another story with no end .

there are two different chazzers claiming to know what is what and both have different stories, who knows the real truth.
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  #24  
Old 03-11-2013, 02:34 PM
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To be entirely honest, I don't really see why it matters. All I know is that at one point they *did* find rat poisoning in his system. I am not entirely sure if they found it before or after he died, but that is what I know.

I don't see why everyone cares so much whether or not he was poisoned at West or not. His owners said they *think* it *may* have happened at West, but they also said it could have happened at the Plum Creek Kennel Club show which was in Denver the following weekend. I have attended PCKC for 7 years and I have personally witnessed animal rights activists attempting to poison water bowls and let dogs out of crates- all I'm saying is that it does happen.

I think you all are taking this badly written story a little too personally. The important thing is that Cruz did pass away from rat poison, whether it was accidental or intentional is another matter entirely and there is probably no way we can ever know for sure either way.
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  #25  
Old 03-11-2013, 03:02 PM
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...whether it was accidental or intentional is another matter entirely and there is probably no way we can ever know for sure either way.
Exactly. My point is that with that degree of uncertainty, no public statement or accusation should have been made. It's just fear mongering.
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  #26  
Old 03-11-2013, 03:55 PM
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Exactly. My point is that with that degree of uncertainty, no public statement or accusation should have been made. It's just fear mongering.
This. And of course, most of us can only go by the article, which said the dog was never tested. Of course, if they did test the dog and the rat poison was found, things look different.

As I said, I feel terrible for anyone who loses a beloved pet, which I suspect this dog was.
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  #27  
Old 03-12-2013, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
This. And of course, most of us can only go by the article, which said the dog was never tested. Of course, if they did test the dog and the rat poison was found, things look different.

As I said, I feel terrible for anyone who loses a beloved pet, which I suspect this dog was.
You "suspect"? Man, its comments like this that make it hard for me to partake in forums. How would you feel if your dog was poisoned? Wouldn't you be angry? If it were my dog, I would be in exactly her shoes. Maybe its irrational, maybe its fear mongering, but honestly I can't imagine that was her intention... she is incredibly upset that she lost her very loved pet and partner. Breeders are constantly targeted by AR activists, and that is the conclusion that most people jumped to when we heard he was poisoned.

For the record, she is not the only person who feels Westminster is not a safe show for dogs to participate in. There have been numerous incidents with PETA, and honestly those people are scary. It is such a high profile event that it is the perfect target, not to mention the benching of the dogs is really a pretty terrible practice and makes it a lot harder to keep everything safe.

*shakes head* I just do not understand people sometimes.
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  #28  
Old 03-12-2013, 08:54 AM
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*shakes head* I just do not understand people sometimes.
You don't understand that people want other people not to spread rumors and fear monger? Quite honestly this whole story makes me question the existence of these supposed other "numerous incidents with PETA" - which is kind of the whole point about how these types of unproven accusations are undesirable.

There's no doubt in my mind that this woman is upset and lost a beloved pet. And sometimes grieving people are very angry and need someone to blame. But if you're going to point a finger somewhere, you'd better have some pretty solid evidence, not "it looks like the dog probably died of this and it maybe might have happened at that place because some other people think it's not safe".
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  #29  
Old 03-12-2013, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
This. And of course, most of us can only go by the article, which said the dog was never tested. Of course, if they did test the dog and the rat poison was found, things look different.

As I said, I feel terrible for anyone who loses a beloved pet, which I suspect this dog was.
You "suspect"? Man, its comments like this that make it hard for me to partake in forums. How would you feel if your dog was poisoned? Wouldn't you be angry? If it were my dog, I would be in exactly her shoes.
Huh? I don't know these people; I suspect (assume? presume? Is it the word I used that was an issue?) that the dog was a beloved pet, and, as I said, I just feel terrible for anyone who loses their pet. I'm confused why that statement is upsetting. I don't care if the dog was poisoned, dies of cancer, hit by a car, or anything else - I simply feel for someone who loses something they love.

The first paragraph was simply stating that, as one of the many, many people on here who don't know the owner, all I had to go on was the article - which said they suspected poisoning but that they had cremated the dog without testing it. If the facts are different - obviously the situation is different.

Regardless of what the facts are, my sympathy is with those who lost their dog.

I remain perplexed by why my post was upsetting.
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  #30  
Old 03-12-2013, 10:08 PM
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In regards to the effectiveness of toxicology screenings:

Quote:
he profuse bleeding that killed Cruz can be caused by a number of conditions, according to the veterinarian who examined Cruz, Molly Comiskey. After Chaffin rushed the dog to the vet when he threw up blood, Cruz owner Lynnette Blue says, Comiskey listed rat poison as a possible cause.

But because Chaffin and Blue declined a necropsy or further testing, the final answer won't ever be known, Comiskey said in a statement.

Blue says Comiskey told her a necropsy wouldn't have shown anything if the dog had been poisoned days before. The few she's allowed before all turned up inconclusive, she said.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/01/us/westminster-dog-dead

Regardless of how or what happened, my heart goes out to his owner. It's horrible to lose a friend like that, I wish there was a way for her to get closure on it all.

ETA: which makes sense with rat poison. After four days it would be out of his system, but the damage would already be done.
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