Tugging style issue

[milos_mommy]

Maybe I'm TOTALLY missing something, but can't you teach her a solid drop-it command and have her drop it as soon as she starts to roll?

[Emily]

Originally Posted by milos_mommy

Maybe I'm TOTALLY missing something, but can't you teach her a solid drop-it command and have her drop it as soon as she starts to roll?

Weeeeeeell...

Originally Posted by Emily

Outing - I also can't really out her when this starts, because for one thing, she doesn't have a clean out yet, and for another, it's like impossible for me to lock up and kill the toy when she's upside down, pushing her feet into my legs and thrashing against the toy. I'm not exactly strong the in the upper body.

And it's difficult to TEACH a solid out or "drop it" when your dog will hang cheerfully off a toy, even if you kill the motion of the toy and wait. Her "dead toy" outs are getting there, but when she's on her back she's often totally over aroused and can hang there and self-satisfy by just chomping/thrashing on the toy. If I let go out of the toy she finds that reinforcing, and absolutely won't trade a toy for food.

I will be teaching a solid out by trading her for toys, which I may later on use to "correct" her for rolling if the behavior persists. But honestly, I don't necessarily want to use negative punishment (pausing the game every time she rolls) if I can instead build the proper a little bit at a time positively, using trading and chasing games, as others have suggested.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Out. It sounds so simple, until you own a strong drivey possessive obsessive dog. lol

But yes, a solid drop it would help the rolling.

[Emily]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

Out. It sounds so simple, until you own a strong drivey possessive obsessive dog. lol

But yes, a solid drop it would help the rolling.

LOL yeah, exactly.

I plan to build proper tugging bit by bit using trading and chasing, and then when we've got a good out, I'll use it to correct any remaining rolling.

Of course, Belgians like to take your simple plans and stuff them back in your eye socket at you, so she may have other ideas.

[AdrianneIsabel]

We have learned to pick our battles and one we don't bother with for Sloan is an out. She outs off a live sleeve, hands over a dumbbell, and spits out a ball for fetch, the fact we have to not touch her or the toy for an out is relatively unimportant.

Backup however, raised the exact same, has a fine toy out with gentle reminders and yet has trouble returning with and outting his dumbbell.

Simple would be boring, or so they tell me.

[stardogs]

Originally Posted by Emily

Of course, Belgians like to take your simple plans and stuff them back in your eye socket at you, so she may have other ideas.

Yep. I'm working on outing issues with Aeri too - she was fine until her toy drive went up after her first heat, and then BAM! no more outing. >.<

And to give others some reference: Aeri will literally drag me if I try to immobilize a tug by STANDING ON IT. She doesn't care that it's dead, the slight inch by inch movement she can force and the chewing she can do is plenty reinforcing.

That being said, with lots of two toy and trading, and some creative problem solving, she is FINALLY outing even a linen tug that's NOT immobilized as long as *I* freeze.

[CreatureTeacher]

I'd very much like to see a video. I've got a couple of ideas, but I'm not sure if they're on the mark. It's such torture when they do things you know you shouldn't laugh at!

[FG167]

Oh outing, never knew how much I would grow to hate outing my dog lol.

What about a leather tug, a flat, non soft one. They're slippery when drooly so she might slide off when she rolls if she's not careful. I have better control on grips with a non chewy tug as well.

[Emily]

So, did some experimenting today!

She's less chewy and less roll-y with a rope toy, I got this one at Target for like $5.



Today I switched between that toy and the linen tug. She def values the linen tug a little more, but we haven't played with the rope toy as much so there's not a strong history of reinforcement yet. Either way, she will trade pretty readily (although at one point she had both of them in her mouth, LOL). I left a drag leash on her and if she fixated on the tug she had and didn't want to trade, I just used gentle leash pressure (while running backwards) and an excited voice to bring her to me, which worked really well as an interrupter and got her refocused on whatever toy I had.

But I really think I need to ditch the linen tug for a while until her targeting gets better, because while we were playing chase games she managed to pin my finger to the tug and give me a decent puncture. Waaaaaaaaaaah LOL But I kept playing until blood got all over and it got gross. It was an innocent mistake and I didn't want to punish her by ending the game when she was trying really hard to work with me. That tug is only 12" long and down one handle... I think we need a longer tug where I can keep my hands clear of the danger zone, lol, until we both get a little more coordinated.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Gloves.